Nadine Nethery on how freelancers can retain customers

Rachel Smith: Hello and welcome to The Content Byte, a podcast for freelancers who use their words to make money. I’m Rachel Smith, a freelance journalist, copywriter, and content producer. I’m also the founder of Rachel’s List, a jobs board and community for Australian writers and other creatives. 

Lynne Testoni: I’m Lynne Testoni! I’m a journalist and content writer as well. Rachel and I are your weekly co-hosts, and every week we bring you all kinds of tips, tricks, and some fabulous guests to help you make the most of your freelance business.

Hi, how are you? 

Rachel: I’m good! 

Lynne: This week we’ve got such a great topic because I’m really pleased, we’re going to talk about customer retention this week. I think we know that it’s so much easier to keep your existing clients rather than constantly hustle for new ones. What do you reckon? 

Rachel: I definitely had lots of new ones coming in, but I have regular anchor clients, and I think I’ve had one for more than 20 years, which is amazing because at that point, you know that person’s business so well. You might not be on staff, but you just know every nuance of their business, their goals and all of that. I agree, I think the more clients you can keep, that are longstanding clients, it’s really important, and I think we forget about that. We forget that retaining customers and retaining clients, it is something we could all be doing better. 

Lynne: Absolutely, you’re so right. My biggest client is one I’ve had for the whole 10 years I’ve been freelancing, and that work is great to do because I know them well, I understand their market.

This week’s guest is a specialist in all thing’s customer delight and retention as she says. So how about you introduce her and get her into the hot seat? 

Rachel: Yes, I’d love to. We are talking to Nadine Nethery today. She’s an audience driven copywriter to earn customer experience and retention strategist for online business owners who want to attract, retain, and wow their dream customers.

Over the past eight years, Nadine has given hundreds of industry disrupting online business owners the words to shine and the strategies to build a sustainable audience centred business and she’s on a mission to make mediocre brand experiences a thing of the past. Welcome, Nadine. We’re in that with you!

Lynne: Welcome! 

Nadine: Thanks so much for having me on the show, Lynne and Rachel. So good to be here to talk about one of my favourite topics!

Rachel: Absolutely! Well, you and I met through Kirsty Fanton, which is very exciting and then I got onto your newsletters and listening to your podcast. I’m a huge fan of what you do. Tell us a bit about your career journey and how you got into customer retention. 

Nadine: Absolutely. Originally, like so many writers, freelance writers come from the corporate world. I worked in corporate comms and marketing for close to two decades. Worked in corporate comms, PR, travelled the world selling fancy cars to journalists and people – finding winning angles and points of difference and all those things. Then like so many women unfortunately got made redundant on mat leave with my second baby. He was three months old at the time.

It totally crushed my world because not only had I just lost the role that I was planning to come back into, it was all signed off, but it really shook my world and the hormones probably didn’t help at the time, but it really made me doubt, was it me? Is it my skills?

Looking back, I’m so grateful that this incident happened. While it was hard at the time, it really made me consider my options and look at what I’m really good at, what I want to bring to the world. It sounds corny, but how I can have more impact beyond being a number in the corporate system and via a few detours going back into corporate, employment for another major corporate organisations. I started my side hustle as a copywriter. 

Back then, I was doing all the things for anyone. Again, you need to start somewhere. I was doing social media copy, content marketing, but I really loved the writing component and helping, majority of them were women on a very similar path to me, helping them share their genius with the world and bring their passion to life.

Like you were saying in our pre-chat, so many of those clients are still with me today in a different capacity. It’s such a beautiful long-term relationship that we have and so nowadays I still support my clients with copy. I primarily serve service providers, membership site owners, course creators. Really online business in general but more on a holistic level. So still copywriting, but how it fits into the bigger picture. What comes before and after the particular copy that I write for my clients, and I just love it because it goes so deep, it’s so holistic, and it helps my clients step away from that constant need to sell because there’s that pressure you have to sell because you’re a business, you have to earn a living, but there really is such a different way to approach things so you don’t have to constantly push a hard sell. What I love to do is help my clients realise how they can automate that process to a certain extent so it’s selling in the background without them having to do the heavy lifting all the time and they can just get on with running their business and build those lasting relationships.

Lynne: Just taking away the hustle really, isn’t it? 

Nadine: Absolutely. 

Rachel: A lot of people listening will be very excited about that idea. 

Lynne: I know you run a business called the Retention Lab that trains online business owners about how to retain and delight customers. How did that come about and how does that work? 

Nadine: Retention Lab is my newish membership. It’s really evolved from a membership I had previously. So, coming from originally the copywriting background, I helped clients with copy critiques and audits on a monthly basis. So that’s how the membership started but then as I was falling more in love with the customer experience side of things, I’ve done courses, and I’m semi obsessed with it. Since then, I really noticed that I was short-changing my customers and my members. 

In May, Retention Lab was launched as that evolution of the original membership and really supports people nowadays with formulas, I like to call them. Proven things that are working in my business to retain my customers and create remarkable customer experiences. They’re bite-sized snippets, bite-sized things because we’re all busy, right? A lot of us are, one want people to show, so they fit into the monthly routine and you just chip away at your own powerful retention system to help you gradually step away from that constant sales cycle. It now comes with two levels. So still that high level support where I audit customer journeys, for example, and I review copy components, but also a lower-level tier where people can come in just for the formulas. They can DIY, they still get access to me to ask questions, but it’s for those people who just want to chip away in their own time and space.

Rachel: That’s really interesting. I think because obviously I have a membership as well as my own business and I think getting that second set of eyes on things because you are doing all the things, you’re wearing all the hats. You’re being the email marketer and all those different components of running a business and having a second set of eyes on, perhaps where you might be falling down a little bit would be really useful, I think.

Nadine: Absolutely. It’s that, as you said, objective perspective as in, have you considered this? And often people go, oh no, I haven’t, but this is so cool. So, it’s so valuable. 

Lynne: So maybe we should start by talking about why you need to work on customer retention. What’s the big thing to start with?

Nadine: It’s hard to explain. I feel retention gets such a bad wrap because the focus is so much on that lead generation and growing your list. But customer retention is so important because if you are starting with a leaky bucket because you have no system in place to turn browsers into customers and customers into loyal fans then pouring more water and more new leads into that bucket won’t fix things. Retention, really if done properly and if you have a system in place that takes care of that strategically, not only takes care of that lead generation strategy because existing customers are talking to their friends, they’re bringing in fresh leads for you.

It also takes care of you at sales strategy because you have all those beautiful connections happening that organically introduce the next step, but it also becomes your reputation. Strategy, because again, if you create this standout experience where people feel like you genuinely care, they can’t wait to hear what you have to say and what you’re sending in your next email. Your reputation automatically is elevated, and people can’t wait to drop your name in all the right places. As in, check out Rachel, she sends the best emails; she’s got the best surprises. Reputation is your long-term sustainable business strategy, from my point of view. 

You can speak on all the stages and participate in all the virtual summits and bundles and all the things that are out there, but if you’re not attracting the right people to begin with, and then really don’t support them to stay engaged, it’s all just leading to burnout long term because you feel like you’re stretching your yourself too thin. 

In my instance, how I really caught onto this, which might be valuable for your listeners here is, I’m a huge data nerd, so I love my email stats. I’m with Drip personally and the analytics side of things is just so powerful. You can filter by last engagement, last purchase time between purchases. It’s just so powerful. And so, I started digging one day and I actually have the stats here. I looked up the most recent ones before the call.

Currently 66% of my email subscribers have purchased from me, whether that’s one-on-one, they’re part of our membership or a digital product. I have a few DIY toolkits and resources. 66% of people on my list have bought from me in some capacity. 40% of those bought a second type. 52% of those are repeat buyers – bought a third type and 65% of those third time buyers bought a fourth time and it continues like that. The more people experience my teaching style and how I deliver my work, the more likely they are to buy again. It’s just such a powerful mindset shift and perspective shift in your business. Why not focus on the people who already said yes in your business? Give them what they need. Really pay attention to the signals that they’re sending you and then use that as your sales engine and let them organically map their own path through your office suite. Whether that’s one-on-one, I’m sure if you’re working one-on-one, you have different offer types that you can then organically present at the right opportunities and for courses there’s products that organically fit together, so you just have to help those people connect the dots. 

Lynne: So interesting. 

Rachel: Wow. I’d love to just zoom out a bit to a big picture. If you’re looking at retaining customers or clients as a freelancer, what would be the key things that you think you need to have in place? Like a freelancer who has copywriting clients or something like that.

Nadine: Absolutely. Retention, just as a precursor here, is not rocket science. It sounds so scientific. It really relies on the most underrated sales channel, as I like to say, which is your customer experience. It’s really a mindset that needs to be embedded in how you approach every client project.

What it comes down to at the core is being a genuine partner than a transaction. So, being emotionally invested in your client’s results as much as they are, and totally getting that across. Infusing little personal touches at all the right times. For example, I love Bonjoro personal video messages. It takes a little bit of time, a minute here or there, but it’s just surprisingly still so uncommon.

Bonjoro allows you to send personal videos and talking about client retention here, even before jumping on a discovery call with people, I send them a video and they’re basically sold before I even jump on the call, because they’ve built that personal connection, but also if they’ve reached out to 10 other people, because you’re comparing, you’re shopping on price, you’re having a look what’s out there, you automatically stand out.

You can apply that same concept to customer retention as well. So, what I do as a copywriter, again, so once my copy is actually out, while that website is out, has been launched, I send them a personal video message to just congratulate them after I’ve checked it out and tell them how amazing it is.

It’s the little touches that just show that it’s nice to be paid for what you do, but you are actually cheering them on. You are their cheer squad beyond that project. The second point touches on that as well. Don’t ghost them once you hand it over, that deliverable. Every project comes to an official end, but I have processes in place that help me check in at very specific times after that deliverable and then long-term, thinking about that next project, the next sale, working with them again, it really comes to down to anticipating their needs and being that one step ahead. Thinking about someone worked with you in my instance, for example, on that first website, project. Likelihood is that their lead magnets aren’t in place, they might need email funnels. So how can you plant that seed in that next conversation to just open up opportunities and present yourself as someone who can support them long term. 

Lynne: With all this, it sounds really interesting. Do you think email marketing’s a really important part of that? Because it seems to me that’s a great way of managing that customer journey throughout and is that what you use, that email marketing strategy? 

Nadine: Absolutely. I add people, so clients who I’ve worked with to my email list, I give them a heads up, so I don’t do the dodgy. I just tell them that’s what’s happened. You’re not on my general email list, you’re welcome to opt out, but I think having worked together, there’s valuable stuff for you. I try to add them into my “regular programming” and then how I handle it, so I’m very much a bespoke email marketer, so I don’t blast the same things to everyone on my list.

I pay really close attention to how people are interacting with my content. In Drip it’s called Trigger Links, Kit, Active Campaign – they all have very similar features, but they’re basically links with hidden superpowers. People don’t know what’s happening, but let’s say you are talking about a certain offer, someone clicks on that link, checks out the sales page. On the backend, in my system, I tag people as interested. I can do all sorts of things. I can add them to funnels, I can add custom fields. There are endless opportunities, but how I like to handle it with my key offers, also my membership, for example, if I organically talk about it in an email, people click on that link. I then add them to nurture funnels. They’re all non-salesy, like there’s never a hard push, but they are helping to bust objections, false beliefs. So, they’re really priming people to this particular product while I add them to that funnel, I remove them from regular programming. 

Lynne: So, they’re not getting double versions?

Nadine: Exactly. There’s again, clever tagging happening. They’re removed from regular programming and based on which offer they’ve shown an interest in, I then also create excuses for one-on-one interactions. For example, in my done for you nurture flow, where it’s all about working with me one-on-one, people can get a taste for my strategy. For example, they can send me a piece of content for my feedback. It’s creating those opportunities where they interact with me one-on-one. There’s a conversation and there’s an organic opportunity to invite them on a call or tell them, this is how I can help them do X, Y, Z as part of this product. It’s being strategic, bespoke and also really paying attention to the signals they’re sending you. 

Lynne: Oh, wow. I think it’s really tricky. I struggle with mapping out customer journeys on email and tagging them. It sounds to me like so much of it is about the tagging. Are there any easy ways to keep track of tag groups and the email journeys? How do you do that? 

Nadine: I have tags called product X, Y, Z interested, for example. If someone clicks on this particular trigger link, they’re added to the funnel. I know they’re interested in this particular product, that tag stays with them unless they’re buying the product as part of this funnel. But in future then that allows me to target them with specific things. I also allow people, I should say, to for example, opt out of office. So, if I am launching something like my membership in late May, for example, every email that I had the option to opt out of future emails, which some people took me up on. The good thing is it reduces your unsubscribe rate and you can just remove people from emails about this particular product for the next few months until they’re potentially in a different place again. You can plant that seed again. I know it’s hard to keep track. It feels like it’s worth sitting down and coming up with a system that allows you to then really segment people potentially based on DIY or your different offer types, that could be another segmentation strategy. There are all sorts of approaches, but I’m a huge fan of automating. Mumm of three, as I said, yes, I don’t have time to constantly launch and sell and pitch myself. I heavily rely on evergreen sequences and the right email at the right time.

Rachel: Wow and I would love to know when you are planning out your email marketing journeys, are you doing that on Word, or have you got a big whiteboard and you’re just planning out how it’s all going to go and then you write all the emails for that and plug it in to your program? I forget which one it is.

Nadine: It’s Drip. I actually love to repurpose things. Usually every product I sell, course or even one-on-one offer, I “launch” live once. So, I know which emails really resonated, which emails work to treat, and then usually two odd months after the launch when at all the data. I’ve got some fresh testimonials, some fresh feedback, some snippets from my intake survey, for example, that I can repurpose. I then just go in and repurpose, slightly tweak those emails because again, why start from scratch when some really hit the call. So that’s how I usually do it.

It’s not like locking yourself into a room for four hours every day and doing it all at once, it’s baby steps. I usually just take one product, chip away at it, and it’s something that’s never complete as well. That’s what I preach inside Retention Lab. So, it’s about implementing something, letting it collect data. A few months down the track, you go in, have a look what worked, what didn’t work. Then you refine and you repeat the process. It’s long term and it’s never done plus you always get new testimonials and case studies that you can repurpose as well. I’m a huge fan of actually tweaking things on the goal and I pay close attention to things, conversations I’m having and check with people. This is awesome, do you mind if I use this in my marketing? And people often are totally happy. I just grab a screenshot, update it in the moment, or I add it to my running to-do list if I’m in the middle of a client project and have no time. I’ve got this running to-do list of things I want to get to, so I just add it in there, and when I have a moment, I get to it. 

Lynne: So interesting. What about following up? I guess that’s a fear of a lot of freelancers or a lot of writers that they’re worried about being too pushy. How often do you follow up and is it just about nudging, keeping top of mind or is it a bit more? Are you trying to get a call to action in there? 

Nadine: I’m rather strategic about everything in my business. It helps. I have a project management system, Dubsado, which my workflows are pretty watertight. I have key moments that matter built into my off-boarding flows. So, first time you obviously check in is when you hand over the deliverable, right? When people are happy, I have an on-off-boarding survey. That’s where I plant the seed for that next project. There’s a question in there that asks them, how can you picture us collaborating again in the future? Whatever they add in there, I make note of it. If they’re saying, I’m launching in Q4, there might be something there. I then add a task to my offboarding workflow, make sure around that time I just pop up recapping this particular conversation, which again, isn’t sleazy, it’s just showing you actually paid attention to. 

Rachel: That’s very clever. 

Nadine: What they told you, and that often opens up the conversation, even if nothing eventuated again, gets you front of mind, shows that you care and they go, that’s so cool, we haven’t worked together in months, but she’s here. That’s one strategic point. Then when the deliverable is out in the wild, I send personal video messages when a website launches, when the sales pages out there, so just showing up to cheer them on.

When they’re deliverable. So, the copy has some time to capture data. I love case studies and so it’s somewhat selfish, somewhat planting the seed, but it’s checking in on some tangible results they’ve got. For example, how has the copy impacted your conversion rates or how many leads you’ve landed. There’s a question there, is there anything I can help you with right now? Then milestones, really. When it’s been a year since their website launched. So again, cheer squad, there’s no big ask in there. I just like to stay front of mind. What I also like to do again there’s nothing really in it for me, but I’m an organic matchmaker, so I love connecting clients of mine.

Lynne: I do that too!

Nadine: How fun is it? 

Lynne: It’s great and it also keeps you top of mind in a nice, proactive way, doesn’t it? Like connecting people. 

Nadine: It’s again, going above and beyond. It’s something you don’t have to do, it’s not part of your project, but I just love the seeing those projects come to life. I had back in my days when I was doing more e-comm work, I had an artist from Bathurst. I wrote her website copy. Her work’s beautiful and she collaborated with a candle maker who uses artist pieces too for the artwork on the labels and they collaborated, and I was just cheering on from the sidelines.

It’s just so cool to make those organic introductions as again, just this value add that eventuates and a fun project I worked on a while ago, is a private case study podcast. Again, sort of selfishly designed, but it also helps my clients. I gathered a dozen odd past clients. Some of them I had worked with one-on-one. Some of them had taken my courses, were in my memberships to recount what it was like working with me. Some of that thought process that goes into outsourcing, which was sort of the angle people then sign up for my website, but that obviously helps me put people at ease to work with me. But it also allowed my clients to plug their offer, their courses. They could talk about their businesses, and they were more than happy to participate. 

There are so many creative ways to check in, in a semi selfish way, but also to support the clients on an ongoing basis and I feel like just being a bit different is a great starting point. So not doing what everyone else is doing and following the formula, just having a think about what unique ways you have in your repertoire to support your clients on an ongoing basis.

Lynne: It’s a real personal touch, isn’t it? And I think that’s what makes a difference, having that personal angle and it makes it less pushy, doesn’t it? It just makes you sound caring, which you are of course and that is that part of it.

Nadine: Absolutely. It’s bespoke to your business. I obviously pay attention to what other people are doing, but it’s not about then copying what others are doing. It’s putting a personal spin on how you show up, and then that becomes your “signature move”. People know you for that. People recommend you to others for that as well.

Rachel: I think it’s interesting because I have an offboarding questionnaire as well for copywriting clients, for web copywriting clients. But where I struggle is they haven’t got the data yet because the website might be my copy might be going to the designer and so it might be several months before they actually go live. I almost think you need two offboarding because I never know, do I send it once the site is live and they’re so happy and there’s a big buzz and all of that? Or do I send one about the copy first and then another one later? 

Nadine: That’s why I broke it up, because you can still bottle up that initial excitement – send those first few questions. You get that initial excitement and then the data down the track. I think that’s the better approach, because as you said, like people might like the copy, hopefully. So, they resonate with it, they’re excited by what they’re reading, but there’s no proof where that actually works.

Rachel: You have to go back and get that. Ask those other questions.  Interesting. Well, I know you have thoughts on referral partner programs too, so how do they work? 

Nadine: That’s again, part of my off-boarding surveys. So, I don’t want to push myself onto people. Some people just don’t have the audience, don’t hang out in the right circle, so it’s irrelevant. But what I do in my offboarding survey is ask a question and introduce the concept of a referral program. So, something like, I have my official cheer squad as I like to call it, would that be of interest to you? Would you like to find out more? And then, if someone clicks yes, it’s a workflow I trigger inside my Dubsado, which is a manual thing. It just tells them a little bit more about it. Personally, I incentivise introductions because it saves me wasting my money to meta running ads, doing all the things, being on all the stages.

I much rather reward my clients, and it also means they’ve got skin in the game. They’re actually more proactive about those opportunities and dropping your name. Because I feel like everyone says, oh sure, I’m happy to share your name. I’m happy to drop your name, but if there’s something on the other end of that introduction, it makes it a whole lot more appealing.

Lynne: Interesting. Do you think it’s possible to get to a point where you don’t have to hustle anymore? 

Nadine: I wish. 

Rachel: Million-dollar question. 

Nadine: I wish, I don’t think so. I think it becomes a lot easier once you have your systems in place. I feel like I’m in a pretty good place in my business. I still speak on stages. I still put myself out there to get fresh eyeballs onto my office. But I’m much more strategic about it. If it’s a not an all-in, yes if someone pitches me to appear somewhere. If the audience is not aligned, if the timing’s not right, if I can’t quite see how those people are going to fit into my business and my strategy, then I just decline. But unfortunately, I think the online space, you just always have to be visible and show up as much as it’s probably the most annoying part sometimes.  

Rachel: Well, for freelancers who might be out there listening and possibly struggling a little bit with getting work or locking in clients at the moment, what would be your three best no-brainer fixes that they could action today to better retain customers or clients?

Nadine: Probably starting with that mindset shift. Realising that the customer journey and the customer experience really just begins once they’ve hit that buy now button and once, they’ve signed the contract, and that everything that comes from that point is so important to craft that long-term relationship and repeat business.

Secondly, daring to be different. Not being scared to experiment, not to be scared, to think outside of the box and infuse you and finding those things that make you intriguing and different and noteworthy. I feel like with AI ChatGPT, everyone sounds the same. Every email feels the same, every sales page feels the same and it feels like creativity is dead because we are all relying on the same repurposed advice from AI. 

What I’ve been leaning into, which might be again, something some little permission that your listeners need today is totally fun interactive bits in my business. I have an interactive virtual scratchy cart that is all automated. Based on behaviour, my subscribers receive this surprise and delight thing. It’s actually on your mobile screen. You can reveal it with your finger and on the screen, you scratch it with your mouse, and that then reveals a special surprise depending on how it fits into the bigger picture. I’ve run websites, scavenger hunts, for example. Rather than doing a Black Friday sale, I had people interact with my website and find Nadine with Santa hats, little elves hidden. That was really successful, people are still talking about it. I’ve got a Starbucks coffee cart, the loyalty cards. I’m using that as an engagement strategy in my membership, for example, to get people to actually participate.

It all takes a little bit to set up, but then once it’s established, it works, and it just is so different and fresh, and people just can’t wait to hear what you have to offer next. I love fun. Makes it fun for me, for my audience. So, think outside of the box and totally dare to be different and it’s all about personalisation. If you can personalise how you show up and how you deliver offers to your clients, it automatically makes you stand out. It’s like the personal video messages, how you can send them highly relevant emails. It’s all about showing that you truly know your people and it feels like a one-on-one conversation rather than that weekly Tuesday, email blast. 

Lynne: I can see that really makes a difference. Do you still write copy for clients or you more about the coaching and your membership now? 

Nadine: No, I still do one-on-one client work, which I love doing, love going strategic. I’m still writing the copy, but I try to infuse the before and after as well. There’s a lot of strategic thinking around how to draw people in, how to hook them, how to present them with that next offer as well. But absolutely still do one-on-one client work and then a lot of my one-on-one clients, work with me again on a daily basis. I have VIP days, which they can just book me as they as they need, which is important. So, I make it easy for clients to just send me an email saying, Nadine, I need this done, send me a booking link. Loving it!

Rachel: That’s great because we are seeing a lot of, well, I’m seeing it in the Rachel’s List Facebook group – a lot of people saying their client work has dropped off. A lot of their clients are relying on ChatGPT and all of that sort of thing. Are you seeing clients trying to cut corners in ways they didn’t before, in ways they relied on you before?

Nadine: It’s definitely shifted, I feel. Where a few years ago, before the big boom of ChatGPT where a lot of really new businesses would actually invest the money in a copywriter and come to you for that expert help. I feel like they’re starting out with AI generated copy because their budget is tight. They probably think they can do a decent job because they don’t understand the strategy that goes into it. But on the seasoned business side, business owner side of things, it hasn’t really shifted. I think people really still appreciate the strategic lens on copy.

If you, as a copywriter can position yourself as a strategist rather than someone who just, give me a list of things you need done and I’ll tick them off for you. That’s where your magic sauce comes in. So, finding your unique angle and perspective that you bring to their copy and focusing on that rather than the to-do list.

Rachel: Well, we talked a bit about, I think I mentioned your podcast earlier and how I’m a fan of it. Tell us how it came about. 

Nadine: What Would They Do? That’s the name of the podcast. Really was in the making for far too long. I’ve been sitting on that idea. What it’s like the imposter when you’re like, who am I to launch a podcast? But I just went all in because I’m so passionate about customer experience, customer retention, and how business owners are just leaving so much money on the table because they’re ignoring these huge opportunities. I personally looked for customer experience podcast and all that was out there were podcasts aimed at the big end of town with big budgets, big teams, elaborate text decks that no online business owners like you or I could ever afford. I wanted to create something that demystifies this whole process. Helps break it down into actionable steps that you can take with your existing tech stack. It’s practical ideas, action steps, strategies, mindset shifts, some of those we explored today, but they’re bite-sized episodes and every episode is giving you a snippet you can implement today to become customer-centric rather than sales driven. 

Lynne: Is there anything really important to mention about customer retention? I feel we covered a lot so far, but that we haven’t asked you. 

Nadine: I’ve probably got an exercise for your listeners. It’s something that I have on my Retention Lab sales page as an interactive calculator so you can actually slide the bars. I’m a huge fan of showing rather than telling because yes, it works so much better. If you want to check it out, you could jump on the sales page. But basically, how it works is it helps you see in real life how retaining customers can impact, positively impact your bottom line. So, listeners have a think about, if your customer bought twice a year from you rather than once. So, booked you, day bookings twice a year rather than once. How would that impact your bottom line for the financial year? What would happen if you managed to sell them into a little add-on or another little side product as well every time they buy? And then imagine what would happen to your bottom line if they stayed with you for three years rather than two years?

It’s that compound more frequent buying, spending slightly more and staying with you for longer. It is really a snowball effect that turns your business into that sustainable ecosystem where you might not be able to step away completely, but it all becomes so much easier because those customers are sticking around. You don’t have to show up everywhere and you don’t have to constantly run ads, chase new eyeballs, speak on stages. It is such a powerful shift, and I think showing rather than telling again, works a treat. 

Rachel: Okay. We’ll include that in the show notes, a link to that. We’ll get that off you.

Just before we go, we’d love to ask our guests about their favourite, about their tech stack or the tools they’d be lost without. You mentioned Drip and also the video thing that you use. I use Loom, but what’s the other one you mentioned? 

Nadine: Bonjoro. There are a few similar products that do the same, but Bonjoro is my preferred one. Just makes it so easy. I also, I know a very controversial topic – love popup boxes, strategic ones on my website. For that, I use Convert Box, which allows you to totally personalise the customer journey, so it links into my email platform Drip so I can display very strategic popups based on the interest they’ve shown where they are in a certain funnel.

Lynne: Oh, that sounds good. So many interesting tools and everything that you can automate. 

Nadine: Yeah, it’s great and I don’t think you need a whole tonne. If you have the key stack in place and very important tools that talk to each other. I know you can use Zapier but again, that all adds up. I’ve tried to look for tools that natively talk to each other, so you can just get around the extra integration tool. 

Rachel: For sure. Well, thank you so much, Nadine. This has been fascinating actually.

Lynne: So good. I think it makes us; I’m sending all the emails after we get off here. Start thinking!

Nadine: Yes, exactly. 

Lynne: Exactly. 

Rachel: Well, tell us where our audience can find you and get in touch. 

Nadine: Probably best starting point is my website, www.candocontent.com. And if you are curious to see some of my little customer delight strategies in action, I’ve actually created a specific virtual scratchy cart for the listeners, with lovely special listener offers. I’ll share the sign-up link with Lynne and Rachel. If you sign up, you get one straight to your inbox and you can play around with it. 

Rachel: Oh, that sounds fantastic. We’ll pop that into the show notes. Awesome. Well, that brings us to the end, end of the show this week. But thanks to everyone who’s listening today and listened to Nadine.

If you like the show, leave us a rating and review on the platform where you find new podcasts. 

Lynne: See everybody again next week! 

Nadine: Thank you! Thanks for having me.

Lynne: Thanks everybody. Bye! 

Rachel: Bye!

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Credits:

Listen to Nadine’s podcast, What Would They Do here: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/what-would-they-do-the-customer-experience-podcast/id1796323283

Connect with Nadine at www.candocontent.com

And find her Virtual Scratchie Card: https://link.candocontent.com/content-byte-scratchie

Find Lynne www.lynnetestoni.com 

Find Rachel www.rachelsmith.com.au 

Rachel’s List www.rachelslist.com.au 

If you have questions you’d like us to answer in our next Q&A episode, just send them here.

Thanks (as always) to our sponsors Rounded (www.rounded.com.au), an easy invoicing and accounting solution that helps freelancers run their businesses with confidence. Looking to take advantage of the discount for Rachel’s List Gold Members? Email us at: hello@rachelslist.com.au for the details.

Episode edited by Marker Creative Co www.markercreative.co