Joanna Savill on blending journalism with events

Rachel Smith: Hello and welcome to The Content Byte, a podcast for freelancers who use their words to make money. I’m Rachel, a freelance journalist, copywriter, and content producer. I’m also the founder of Rachel’s List, a jobs board and community for Australian writers and other creatives. 

Lynne Testoni: I’m Lynne! I’m a journalist and content writer as well. Rachel and I are your weekly co-hosts, and every week we bring you all kinds of tips, tricks, and some fabulous guests to help you make the most of your freelance business

Hello again, Rachel. So good to see you again. It’s lovely. 

Rachel: You too!

Lynne: I wanted to ask you a question. How has your career changed over the years? 

Rachel: Well, a lot actually. I started off as a journalist and was doing movie reviewing and lots of magazine features and I mostly do copywriting now. The industry has changed a lot, even since I started freelancing 25 years ago and I think many of our most successful guests have really managed to evolve. It makes the podcast so interesting, hearing what everyone’s doing. 

Lynne: Yes. Because we do have a lot of people who started off in journalism and have moved into content or copy or maybe sometimes stayed in journalism, but had different mediums on that, whether it’s video or even social media. 

I’m really excited about today’s guest. She’s had such an amazing career, and I think she’s also adapted with the times and the changes in the industry. It’s Joanna Savill. Shall I introduce her? 

Rachel: Yes, please. 

Lynne: Joanna Savill has spent a few decades in the food journalism world. I’m with you there, Joanna – including five SBS TV series and editing the Sydney Morning Herald, Good Food Guide. Events have also been part of her portfolio from the international chef days of The Crave Sydney International Food Festival, through to the now legendary Night Noodle Markets. After eight years in a community focused government role, she’s now exploring circular hospitality practices, and we’ll talk about that along with a little writing and event work. 

Welcome, Joanna!

Joanna: Thank you very much, Lynne and Rachel. Lovely to see you both. 

Rachel: Yes. Look, you had me at Night Noodle Markets. I’m now very hungry.

Joanna: What an amazing thing that was back in the day. But as we’ll probably say as we move on, things evolve and particularly in the events world. What was a thing in the two thousands is now kind of everywhere and what’s the next thing? It was great, it was, and I’m now feeling hungry too.

Rachel: We should have snacks! But anyway, I don’t think you’re supposed to eat when you’re podcasting, are you? People don’t like the crunching in your ears.

Lynne: Not a good sound. 

Joanna: Having a laksa as we speak! 

Rachel: You’ve had such an interesting career, so why don’t you take us through it. We were just talking about how people’s careers have evolved. So, talk to us about how and when you started writing and how things have evolved since then. 

Joanna: It was a little bit of a coincidental thing in a way because I actually trained originally as a subtitler and as a translator and I ended up as a subtitler at SBS Television and through my work there decided that actually I really wanted to not just translate people’s TV shows, I wanted to help make them and moved into straight up and down news and current affairs journalism. So that’s really where I began. But working at SBS with people from all different cultural backgrounds and being someone who had trained as a translator in Italy, France, and Germany and Belgium, learned that food is a very important part of life. It wasn’t quite the same in Australia back in those days, although we were getting there. Ate a lot of delicious food with my colleagues at SBS and thought, Wow! Sydney has got so much happening that most of us don’t know about. Without going right down that path, that led to SBS eating guidebooks, and then eventually with Maeve O’Meara and then also to The Food Lover’s Guide to Australia TV series, which was actually the first food program produced by SBS television back in 1997. 

Lynne: Wow!

Joanna: That was a wonderful time because it really gave us the opportunity to meet and explore all of the incredible food cultures that exist in this country, which have of course all gone on from strength to strength.

One of the lovely things as a side note that came out of that was seeing people like Luke Nguyen and Adam Liaw, and Clayton Donovan and all of these other people actually then take over the reins in a way and start telling their stories and the stories of their personal family food cultures directly.

So, it was of its time and place I think and when I left SBS, I kind of moved into the fine dining space with Sydney Morning Herald, Good Food Guide and also following that was employed by Fairfax Media to start their first International Food Festival, which was known then as Crave Sydney International Food Festival.

Suddenly across the line from straight up journalism to supporting and promoting and connecting with the talent that I was writing about and getting them to share what they do with broader audiences in person and it’s a lovely way to combine the two sides of your working life.

I think obviously words and television and all the other media platforms are fantastic, but being able to give people firsthand, in-person experiences in food is a great joy. 

Lynne: It is. There’s been so many changes in the food media industry. I’ve worked with many of them too, and certainly in my early days at the Woman’s Weekly Cookbooks and at Vogue Entertaining, it felt like Australian food media was in such an exciting place, and it’s changed a lot. So do you think it’s vastly different or it’s just matured. How do you think it’s translated? 

Joanna: Well, I think vastly different. The reality is when I was editing the Good Food Guide, we were selling 40,000 copies a year. When the Good Living or as it was known then, newspaper sections would come out on a Tuesday morning. The chefs were already at the newsagents waiting to see what their review score looked like or who was being written about and what was going on. And now of course, that that has completely changed. 

Lynne: Restaurants used to, if they got a review in Good Living in the Herald, they would be booked out for months, if they got a great review. If they had a bad review, which didn’t happen that often, they were just decimated, weren’t they? It was so powerful. 

Joanna: It was a very powerful time and certainly editing the guide, I became very aware of all of the process and all of the things that are involved to do the right thing, primarily, of course for your readers, but also by the restaurants.

It was another great learning curve, and I really came to a point where I appreciate and understood if you like the other side of the food story, the producers and the restaurateurs and the chefs. But look, social media, Covid, food television, the expansion of food television. I always say MasterChef really changed the game in Australia. I mean, when had anyone ever heard of Peter Gilmore before he appeared on MasterChef? And then suddenly, that’s no cake, everybody wanted it. The social media platforms, the television platforms, the websites, all of that, the internet in general and all that’s come with it. We used to talk about blogs. Now we don’t talk about blogs. All of the evolution that’s happened, I don’t want to sound too old but happened the last twenty years or so is extraordinary. So, I do think it’s a very different landscape. It’s lovely to see publications that still exist and Gourmet Traveller and of course Good Food and others. 

Let’s face it, most of us are getting our information online these days and so in all those algorithms, taking you to certain places and spaces and not to others, and it becomes a lot more varied, and in some ways, I think, definitely for food journalism, challenging. Because let’s be honest, most editors are mostly concerned with clicks.

Lynne: So interesting. 

Joanna: Which comes to stuff, they want to make sure that an article is going to get people reading it. And I get it. I mean, that’s what it all was always about. You didn’t write articles for yourself. You wrote them to communicate things to a broader audience. But now, it’s all about the way that’s measured is not by sales of newspapers, it’s by clicks and you’ve got to have that little thing that’s got to get everyone going, oh, that looks interesting. 

Without going too far down that line, a lot of it’s to do with the top ten this and the top ten that and the time and energy that a lot of us spent back in the day researching for an article. I’d spend days doing three of a kind for Good Living, trawling the suburbs of Sydney. There are journalists who still absolutely do that, and I take my hat off to them. But for most people, the budgets are down, the money’s not there. You’d be doing that sort of work for probably $10 an hour if you’re actually going to do it and that’s just the reality. So, they’re very different times. 

Rachel: You’re kind of reminding me of the golden days of newspaper supplements because it does all seem to be digital now, but I don’t know if that’s such a bad thing. I followed lots of chefs on Instagram, for example, and you can just get an incredible recipe and watch them make it in thirty seconds and get inspiration that way in ways that you couldn’t in a print supplement, I suppose. How do you feel about the state of food media now and how it’s all kind of evolved? 

Joanna: Look, as I say, they are very different times, and I think there are still some amazing people writing incredible articles and doing all the research and doing all of the things. I think it still very much has a role and as a former editor of The Good Food Guide, I have a lot of time for proper restaurant reviewing and all of that, because those are skills and criteria and also certain ethos that are important. 

I agree with you though. Isn’t it lovely that a chef can show you exactly what she or he is doing without having to go through a magazine. It’s just different. But in terms of actually being a writer now and publishing something and the time and energy that you put into it versus, let’s be honest, the financial rewards, it’s not an easy place to be anymore. It’s no one’s fault. It’s just the way the world has changed. 

Lynne: The way it’s changed. Do you think it’s hard to make a good living as a food writer? I mean, unless the ones that make money might be some recipe developers or people that might do cookbooks or something like that.

Joanna: I think there are ways to do it and definitely as many would do now. There’s the behind-the-scenes content creation and the other things that people do. I think people still manage it, but I’ve certainly talked to many younger food journalists who might go back to a restaurant two or three times before they write about it. But they’re not actually being paid to do that and if you want to do a good job, I think it’s very hard. I don’t mean that people who write top ten lists aren’t doing a good job, but it’s just very different. I think the thing for me that was wonderful was being able to move into that direct communication, direct connection with people world through events and other things. 

Even when I was freelancing between SBS and working at Fairfax on the guide, which would be, I hate to say it, twenty years ago, I made the better revenue from MCing events and creating events and doing that kind of stuff. Certainly, I was earning enough as a food writer – food journalist, but to really survive, I was doing other things even back in the day. 

Lynne: Interesting. 

Rachel: We’re always really inspired by people who managed to use their transferable skills because we’re big believers in doing that – leapfrogging to new careers and that resilience that it takes to do that, and which you have done brilliantly. Do you think that journalists have those skills, perhaps don’t realise how to leverage them into other areas? 

Joanna: Absolutely. Because in the end, journalism is about facilitating communication. It’s about telling stories and there are so many different ways we can tell stories and yes, words and video and now all of the other platforms are one way of telling stories. But we are helping. That’s how I always used to see it, I was helping amazing chefs or restaurateurs or producers tell their story, but also through events or other platforms. And I think that’s what we do because as a journalist you’re naturally really interested in anything that’s new, going down rabbit holes on stories of people, and then trying to find out something else.

Fundamentally, you’re doing that because you wanted to share that, what you’ve learned and discovered with other people and that includes, attributing all of that content or information to the people who’ve provided it. So, you are a middle person, but there are many ways that you can be a middle person, I suppose and of course you have got the key thing, which is communication skills and communication skills can be used in so many different ways. 

Lynne: So interesting. 

Joanna: I think that’s the key part of it. So, it’s just finding ways to use your communication skills. 

Lynne: I’d love to talk a little bit about events, because I was listening to a podcast the other day, which is one of my favourites, The Rest is Entertainment and they’re all talking about this growth in what’s really being called immersive experiences, where it’s like this full circle moment. So, instead of having a story that becomes print media, it’s almost starting with the immersive social media and turning back into an event, back to the live event. What they’re talking about are immersive experiences, things like Bridgerton from being a movie is now an immersive experience, so you can experience the food of Bridgerton or the dance like Bridgerton or something like that and I wonder if that’s the future of the industry because with all the AI coming out, that human element that events provides, is that the future, do you think?

Joanna: I think that’s a really good point and I know this was what I was saying about the Night Noodle Markets before. It was of its time and of its day and it was a fantastic thing to do. Now you can get popups anywhere and everywhere and it’s all lovely, but it’s no longer this iconic thing that happens once a year for a month in Hyde Park.

So, it is about finding new ways to create events, and I think that idea of immersive experiences is a great one. You also see it with movies and people dressing up to go to a movie and to almost be living, as you say, what you’re seeing on the screen by wearing the clothes, perhaps having the food or the drinks.

I was at the Theatre Royal recently for a tour of the new Martin Place precinct and they change all the cocktails that they do depending on what’s on stage. So, they do cocktails that actually connect to the production that’s happening and I just thought, there you go. It’s in constant evolution and that is the joy of it that you are trying to find new ways for people to have a great experience and to communicate stuff to people. 

Rachel: All about helping them get into the middle of that experience in a different way, I suppose. Having put on two really big conferences ourselves, we know, don’t we?

Lynne: Yes. 

Rachel: It’s quite fun. That’s the fun part of it really, is coming up with all those ways to engage people and to make them go away with that real sense of buzz which I think we did from the feedback that we got. 

I’d love to ask you, for journalists or other creatives who are thinking of moving into events or supplementing writing work with event work, how would they even think about getting started? 

Joanna: I think that’s a really good point. One of the things that certainly still exists is the way that events can be attached to a publication. So that’s a kind of direct and fairly obvious way is coming up with concepts. You’re working for a certain publication, and you think, gosh, the readers would love to do this, why don’t we try to give them that experience in some way and perhaps literally be pitching that to editors. Let’s be honest also, one of the absolutely crucial things with events, particularly now, and I’m sure it was the same for you, is creating partnerships and understanding again, that whole marketing and partnership world. Which was one I started at Good Living on The Crave Sydney International Food Festival for the first meeting I attended was a marketing meeting and I didn’t even speak marketing in those days.

So yes, nowadays everyone speaks marketing, so it’s very different, but working out how you can get the right kind of support, for an event is absolutely crucial. So, you might know someone who’s, let’s put it at a very basic level, someone who’s producing a really delicious drink or doing something amazing in their restaurant or food business.How do you get them involved on a low level in an event that might be talking about Sydney food producers? 

I was working my government role with farmers in Western Sydney – small market gardens. How would you get people to those market gardens? You’d need people to be supporting the event so that it actually happens, so that these people could provide their produce and get people to taste it and come back. So, you’ve got to find the win-win in short. I think that’s the key piece of events, but I think it can, as I said before, it connects very much to what you’re trying to communicate already, is how do you create an experience that attaches to the things that you think people would like to hear about or be involved with.

Looking for the way that that’s going to benefit the people who help perform at your event, if you want to put it that way. And also, the people who might support it and why they would do so. Whether it’s in kind as a media partner, or whether it’s in a kind as a product or produce or whether it’s a straight up partnership, accessing people on their database and getting a way to talk to new customers. So, there are several easy enough avenues, still you’ve got to get the people on board. But I think it really, as I said, I feel like a couple of times now, I think it really still comes back to that communication and connection and experience piece. 

In a practical sense there are event companies who often are looking for new ideas and people who have the right sort of connections to create new ideas. And that’s doing your homework and looking at who’s producing events at the moment, what are they doing, what could you pitch to them as an idea that you could bring to life through the people you interview, the people you’ve met, the people that you know, bringing them to that story. I think that’s a starting point, if you like. 

The other side of it is, what I call microphone duty, but as a journo, you’re used to asking people questions and some of us more than others are happy to be on a stage with a microphone, but that’s also a very key part because you want to make sure that an event runs well and that your audience is communicated with, and that you are eliciting the best ideas and stories from the talent at your event. That’s also a very good place to put yourself as a journalist, I think. 

Lynne: We’ve talked a lot about interviewing skills, and I don’t think journalists realise how important they are or how rare they are. 

Rachel: Not anyone can get up there and keep a panel going or keep an event, running along smoothly and seamlessly. So, I think that’s really important. 

Joanna: It takes practice. 

Rachel: It does. It does. I wanted to ask you about your government work, because it was community focused, food related, government work. Can you tell us about that part of your career? 

Joanna: Look, this was a complete surprise when I finished up at Fairfax, as it was in those days, I thought I’d just go back into my freelance journalism and events world. But you have all of these things on Seek. Anyway, long and short, I saw a role as a Director of Communications, well it was actually business development at the time, but it was fundamentally events, communication and marketing for a government agency and it was a government agency, funnily enough, that I had worked with when I was running Crave because we had from Destination New South Wales, they wanted us to create and develop events in Western Sydney in this sense. So, I’d actually helped this agency set up what they called the Parklands Food Festival.

So, I had a little bit of a connection to the agency. I knew who they were through the farming precinct that they were running and how I helped them set up that event. Long and short, I applied for the job, and I got it. But it was a big learning curve yet again and I think that is part of slightly change when your career goes in one way or the other. Just learning how government works and process and rightly so, I think people often see government as this big laborious thing, but there’s some amazing people working in government organisations and they’re working for the people. That’s actually what you’re doing in government. You’re working for people because you’re paid by the taxpayer and you’re not working for a private firm. I really enjoyed finding ways to tell the stories of wonderful parklands at the time to broader communities, finding ways to bring more people out, particularly during Covid. That was very interesting.

Lynne: Oh, that’s very tricky. 

Joanna: Getting people excited about actually going out and being able to walk in the fresh air, in a green space in, Liverpool, Fairfield, and Blacktown, which were part of our Western Sydney Parklands or Parramatta Park, and sometimes from cultural communities who weren’t really used to going out and walking in the bush.

My perspective broadened a lot. It was to do with finding ways to engage with the community and create events for them and not just food events, actually it broadened beyond that very quickly. I then ended up also working with an entity called Placemaking New South Wales, an agency called Placemaking New South Wales, who look after The Rocks, Darling Harbour, Barangaroo, all of the foreshore areas and the new fantastic White Bay Power Station. There I had a bit more of a food focus. It was about bringing people to the precincts by the food offering and doing popups and helping with the markets and doing stuff like that, which was really enjoyable. I had a fantastic time doing it because we were doing things for public spaces, but to bring people out and about and often at no cost for them. Free events and ways to explore this city.

But was a great time. It finished up last year with a little bit of a cut in government roles. One that got delimited, I’d never heard that word before and then I just decided that I would only really focus on things that I feel particularly strongly about, and one of them is sustainability in the hospitality industry. So, I’m working on a startup in that space. I’m doing a little bit of writing, but I do find that because I want to write about those sorts of things, it’s a little bit more challenging because the media world is not quite focused on sustainable process. 

Lynne: Well, they are briefly for a day here or there. It’s not a constant focus.

Joanna: No and it’s a shame because I think there are ways to tell those stories in a very positive and exciting and inspiring way and doing some other little projects here and there, more research based actually than writing based right now. 

Lynne: Oh, that’s interesting. Do you find the variety good to do bits and pieces, a bit of writing, a bit of events? Is there something you prefer over the other? 

Joanna: Look, I guess I’m just a bit of a nerd at heart and I quite like learning new things and learning about sustainable practice and what that actually means. For example, we’re focusing on facilitation, accreditation and obviously communication. Sustainable practice in hospitality. I’m going down an awful lot of tunnels in the sustainability space. I think fundamentally I’m just always interested in hearing something new, which comes back to being a journalist, right? 

Lynne: Definitely.

Joanna: And finding ways to share that and perhaps to inspire people. I do the odd article here and there. I’ve just done a piece about a trip that I had to an amazing sustainability focused restaurant in the Venetian Lagoon for Life and Leisure and Fin Review, and I did something for SBS Food for their 50 years, which is lovely to be included in people they were talking about after fifty years on.

But I’m mainly focusing in the sustainable practice space and connecting and doing the research and all of the things. And fortunately, we’ve got something coming up that will bring you a little bit of money. And there is that part of things, but I just decided that at my age and stage, I really just want to do stuff that I really believe in. I’m fortunate in that regard that I can do that. But I still need to earn money. As I always said to my nephew who thought he might become a journalist after he had graduated from a very high-powered university in the UK, have you ever actually written anything? And he said, no. And I said, so you’re just going to sit on the couch and watch a television and hope to become the editor of the Guardian? I’m not sure that’s going to work – journalism is about getting out and about and talking, and writing and doing, and I think the best of us, well, hopefully I’m one of the good ones, but I think the best for all of us in that space is actually continuously finding ways to tell stories.

Lynne: Definitely.

Rachel: Absolutely. You did touch on money just then, and something freelancers often struggle with is maintaining steady cash flow. Would you have any advice on getting to a stage where you no longer need to worry about it? It sounds like you’ve kind of been good about getting an anchor client and then plugging the other things you’re passionate about around that. Is that one strategy for you? 

Joanna: I think that’s key, and I completely get that’s difficult. I had regular restaurant reviews with delicious food for some time, even while I was in government. They allowed me to do that sort of because of the connection with the restaurant industry, et cetera. And then one day that stopped, and that bit of money just stops, even though it was regular. So, none of these things are forever. But I do agree that I do really believe that you need to get a couple of anchor clients and back in the day it was having a number of weekly or monthly columns, because they can be bread and butter. Sometimes they can be behind the scenes bread and butter, just writing that content once a week for a website or for a company or business that needs some support. But just having that apart from anything, it helps pay the rent, doesn’t it?

Lynne: Yes, it does. 

Rachel: Absolutely. 

Joanna: I think whatever you can do and also about allocating your time. I know that’s really tricky because you’re very much dependent on other people when they want to speak to you and when people want you to file stuff by, and all of those things. But trying to organise your time in a way that you’ve got maybe a day a week that you set aside for one project that you do every week, even if it’s not a particularly exciting one, but it’s the one that brings in the bread and butter. 

Lynne: Interesting. So, what does a typical week look like for you? Or there is no typical week? 

Joanna: No, look, I think because a couple of the projects I’m working on at the moment are starting to firm up. It always happens doesn’t it, everything lands at once? I do try very much to treat the week as the Monday to Friday and sitting at the desk and yes, you might pop out to see someone or do something and friends of mine who aren’t working would say, oh, have you got time for lunch? And I kind of go on the weekend. 

Lynne: You have to be quite disciplined. 

Joanna: I think you do have to be because otherwise it’s very easy to find that the day has gone by, and you haven’t quite achieved what you needed to achieve. That said of course, it’s wonderful to be out and about and see people, but I try to make that dinner or breakfast. 

Rachel: Absolutely. 

Joanna: Just having a little bit of rigor around how you manage your days and even though you might not have work on a particular day being at the desk or whatever that looks like now in front of the screen. You might be doing a bit of research, you might be just seeing what else is going on, who’s written what. Sometimes it’s stuff that’s being written about the US or the UK or other parts of the world and you think, gosh, that’d be great if we could do that in Australia. Might do a bit of research for something and then pitch it, so just having that discipline about the amount of time per week that you do want to spend on work paid or otherwise, perspective or otherwise.

Rachel: So true. We do ask all our guests about their favourite tech tips or the tools they’d be lost without. What are yours? Do you have any? 

Joanna: I’m a bit old fashioned. I’m trying to learn. There are so many platforms now. My startup crew and I we’re working on Notion, which I’m still getting. It’s fine, but it’s just got different manner. 

Lynne: There are so many things you can do. And it’s where to start? 

Joanna: I do think Notion is actually great and I’ve come to embrace the amazingness of what’s it called, Fire, the AI that if you do an interview, it will record the interview and then transcribe it for you. Is it called Fire? 

Lynne: Oh, there’s so many. 

Joanna: I just got it the other day from somebody and I’m on a not-for-profit board for a fantastic food. Fireflies, it’s called.

Rachel: I haven’t heard of that one. 

Joanna: Our board meetings, our monthly board meetings are recorded, I think, on Fireflies, that app. Literally fire and flies, F-L-I-E-S. You have to pay for it, but it’s a great way to just get a pretty decent transcript of a recording and transcript. Obviously if you’re interviewing somebody, you’d let them know that you were doing that upfront, and people don’t mind because that’s what they expect. They prefer you to quote them correctly than. 

Lynne: Yes, exactly.

Joanna: It’s really good and otherwise, I like my MacBook and my good old iPhone and all of the things that we’ve all used to use in the last month. I remember when I had a very first, when Maeve and I were doing the books back in the nineties, we actually had those little MacBook laptop computers and we carried one on a plane from Sydney to Melbourne and people were looking at it going, what’s that? Now I’m making myself out as really old. 

Lynne: When I was at ACP working on magazines, we used to have to book a laptop from the IT department if you were traveling anywhere and then you had to do a remote dial up, which never worked because people didn’t have laptops. They only had really clunky, big desktops then. 

Joanna: I created websites at SBS. I actually created the Food Lover’s Guide to Australia website, and I was between the news and current affairs area, and the TV production area. I created the first V news for SBS News. We used to actually record it ourselves in the newsroom in the morning and then put it online and this is back in the early two thousands, I suppose. 

Lynne: That’s how you learn when you write at the beginning of these and embracing those as they come. 

Joanna: And so much has happened in that time. It just doesn’t stop now.

Rachel: Exactly. 

Lynne: Oh, such a great chat, Joanne. I really enjoyed it. Tell us where our audience can find you for events or for to follow your writing.

Joanna: The easiest I find a lot of communication happens. I don’t have a website. I haven’t set up my own website. I’ve got a LinkedIn, I’ve got a Facebook, and I’ve got an Instagram. I find a lot of communication happens through Instagram, and I’m literally Joanna, JOANNA, underscore, because my original Instagram got stolen. I wrote an article about that one – S-S-A-V-I-L-L with no E on the end. Messages through Instagram work very well or LinkedIn and less Facebook. I’ll look at them all. 

Rachel: I kind of ignore my Facebook page now.

Joanna: I see Facebook as more the personal stuff. I hate to say births, deaths and marriages, but it’s a little bit that. Insta is my working world so restaurants, eateries, trips, that sort of stuff. And LinkedIn is the one that I’m really bad on. 

Lynne: Although that’s how I reached out was through LinkedIn. So, it worked. 

Joanna: I got named as one of SBS TV’s 50 Greatest Change Makers recently when they did their 50 years. I was obviously very, very chuffed and delighted, but I completely forgot to put it on my LinkedIn.

Rachel: LinkedIn is a constant work in progress I think, for so many of us. 

Thank you, Joanna. This has been an amazing chat. Thanks for being our guest this week, that brings us to the end of the show. Thank you to everyone who’s listening, and feel free to leave us a rating and review because we love that, don’t we, Lynn?

Lynne: We do. 

You’ll find show notes in your podcast app, which includes how to connect with Joanna, follow her on Instagram, maybe even LinkedIn.

Rachel: And fly into her DM’s! 

Lynne: All those things! We’ll see everyone again next week. 

Rachel: Thanks. Bye 

Lynne: Bye. 

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Credits:

Connect with Joanna via Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/joanna_savill/

Find Lynne www.lynnetestoni.com 

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Episode edited by Marker Creative Co www.markercreative.co