How to nail client calls with Rachel and Lynne

Rachel Smith: It might be quite short, but these calls are really important because it’s like that first impression – this person could become a potential client. You’re both figuring out if you’re a good fit to work together and if you get it right, it can lead to you landing the work, I suppose…

Hello and welcome to the Content Byte, a podcast for freelancers who use their words to make monies. I’m Rachel Smith, a freelance journalist, copywriter, and content producer. I’m also the founder of Rachel’s List, a jobs board and community for Australian writers and other creatives.

Lynne: And I’m Lynne Testoni. I’m a journalist and content writer as well. Rachel and I are your weekly co-hosts, and every week we bring you all kinds of tips, tricks, and some fabulous guests to help you make the most of your freelance business.

Rachel: Hey Lynne, it’s just us today, another episode with just us.

Lynne: Yeah, it’s fantastic. It’s good.

Rachel: But this is exciting because we are answering a question from a listener. Note to other listeners out there, send us your questions if you have something and if we can do it as an episode, we will. But she wanted to know how to nail client calls, which is a really interesting topic and I don’t think it’s something we’ve covered.

And it sounds kind of simple, doesn’t it? But when we got talking. We realised it wasn’t really.

Lynne: Yes. What’s interesting also because I think we work quite differently, we get work in different ways, which is all good and, and I think this will be a useful conversation for people who want to know what to do in the moment when you’re talking with a potential client, no matter how they found you.

And maybe it’s good that we do things differently because there’s no right way to do it. You might think, oh, the way Lynne works is closer to me. Or maybe Rachel, because I think that’s one of the strengths of this podcast is we do things differently.

Rachel: Yeah.

Lynne: Because we’ve got different styles and different sorts of work.

Rachel: Absolutely. I totally agree. And I think that that, you know, no matter what. When you’re on a client call, I think there are a few skills involved in getting leads over the line to want to hire you. So you can bring in your interviewing skills, you can bring in some soft sales skills and you’ve got to listen, obviously, do a lot of listening and get some intel, but you also want to be able to learn how to direct the call as well, don’t you? So you’re positioning yourself more as an expert or a person who is going to lead this project, because I think that makes a big difference to the client, doesn’t it?

Lynne: I agree. I also think you’ve got to appear confident.

Rachel: Yeah.

Lynne: I mean. Generally, I’d say I am confident, but that’s partly because I’ve been doing this for a long time. But if I’m not, it might be an area or a skillset that I’m not totally sure. You have to project confidence because yes, somebody’s coming to you and they want to be comfortable and know that you can deal with it.

Yeah. And that you can do what they ask.

Rachel: Yeah.

Lynne: So let’s talk about the type of client calls. We are dealing with us in our individual businesses. I think. It’s different. I mean, you, SEO, the hell out of your website, so you get a lot of cold calls. I don’t tend to, probably should do that sometime, but mine are mostly warm and I get a lot via referral because I have a strong niche, particularly people within that niche often speak to somebody else and then I get recommended.

So when they come, they’ve already been told that I can help them. So they’re a bit warmer and sometimes they’re close to a done deal and sometimes it’s more about being briefed about the sort of thing they want, and they want a quote and it’s simple.

Rachel: Okay. Why don’t you, maybe the most useful thing is for you to talk us through that whole process of your call from start to finish with someone who has come via referral.

Lynne: Yeah. It’s interesting because one of the things is they’re not always calls. I get a lot of work just via email. Some people I never even speak to. There’s a few that I’ve never spoken. They just said, you know, Sue Smith says that we need some work done or some case studies, and I hear you’re really good at this, blah, blah, blah.

What do you charge? How, how does it work? And I talk a bit about my process. And sometimes I jump on a call, sometimes I don’t. It depends. If it’s a decent size project, I’d have a chat with them. If it’s just like a blog post or a case study. I do a lot of case studies. I might not.

I say this is how I work and this is what I usually do often because I work in that interior space and I do a lot of work for interiors. I often have met people at functions and we talked a bit about this earlier this year, that I do go try and go to a lot of industry functions. I’ve gone to a few ones within our industry, which has broadened my contacts, and it’s been good for the podcast. But I also go to a few PR/media functions within interiors.

I often speak to interior designers at these things. Ii might be a launch of a new product. I go to that and I do pick up clients that way. And or else I remind people and people ask an interior designer about me.

So I get a lot of referrals that way. And also the longer you are in a niche, people start move around. One of my. Best clients is somebody I worked with at Monier, which is the roof tile company, and she went to a a hardware company and she’s given me a lot of work there.

And people move around within that industry. So they go to a new company and they say, oh, we’ve got some need and they take you with them. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess on that core, it’s usually a bit of a discussion. I think it’s really important to be really professional. I do find, this is me talking to a lot of writers and I’ve coached and counselled – and I know this sounds really basic – but so many of them are late.

You organise a meeting with a writer and they’re late, or they come up looking dishevelled, like they’ve just got out of bed. So I think being a morning person helps, like being up and organised.

I do a bit of research then I always have looked at their website. I’ve often looked at their socials. I think that’s really important. You Google them sometimes if it’s a company I’ve never heard of, I even do an ABN lookup and check. Well, you find this in a Google search. If there’s a company you’ve never heard of, just check that they’re a proper company, they haven’t been around and there’s nothing online to say, oh, these guys are really dodgy.

Read their Google reviews and if says that they don’t pay staff, or suppliers that gives you a really good idea. Because that’s sort of, yeah, I try and make sure that. With a lot of corporates (and I work for a lot of corporates) and they book a half hour meeting. I stick to the half hour and I keep an eye on the time. If I have an agenda, I stick to the agenda.

I usually record it. Well, you put me onto Fathom, which is an AI meeting note takeout. Zoom does one too. I haven’t tried the Zoom one and, but I usually do an online thing with Zoom. And I get notes taken and everyone gets them and that comes out with action points and stuff.

So I think it’s more of a chat for them to get to know me. I have a client – we both got this client actually – and he wanted a chat before he gave me any work. He wanted to get a feel for me and about, and I think that’s fine.

Yeah. It’s unusual. A lot of people just say, I want this done, can you do it?

Rachel: Yeah, I had that same chat with him, so, that was really interesting. Okay, so say you’re on your briefing call. Do you have something specific you say at the end to sort of make it a done deal and get it into your schedule?

Lynne: If it’s a new client, I usually get 50% upfront. I make sure I send a quote, I send it through my accounting software, and then they often accept it some. Some don’t actually accept it by the little button. Some just say, yep, that sounds good.

Rachel: Okay.

Lynne: I also have a lot of clients that I might only do work for every two or three years.

So we sort of reconnect because things might have changed. They might have rebranded, it might be a new marketing manager, all that stuff. Make it a done deal. And it’s usually, it’s all about next steps. Agreeing on next steps. So, okay, you need to provide me with the internal expert, and can you do an email intro? I will send you a quote, all that sort of stuff. So we do next steps. Because I find if you don’t nail people down, it just waffles around.

Rachel: Yeah.

Lynne: And then I follow up all the time because. I don’t know about you, but all my clients, well, most people I deal with, they need a follow up.

So I don’t get that email introduction to the subject matter expert within their company. Yeah. I don’t get, or an architect that worked on the project they want me to cover, I have to follow it up.

Rachel: So what’s your kind of success rate with those warm lead type calls? Would you say you get most of that work?

Lynne: Yeah, most of that work. It’s pretty, it’s pretty rare. Occasionally I’m too expensive. Yeah. It’s pretty rare that I don’t, sometimes I think I probably should be more expensive because don’t they say if you get to more than 80% you are underpricing yourself.

Rachel: Yes. Oh my God. Okay. Well, any, any last tips that you think listeners need to know if they’re in a solid niche and getting those warm leads?

Lynne: I think being top of mind, sending a thank you note for the meeting. Thanks. I’ll be back with this information. People have chats and never goes anywhere. I think that’s, it’s one thing you’ve got

Rachel: to drive that process.

Lynne: You do follow up. You could push them ahead. Yeah. Shall I put you in my schedule? All of that stuff. And as it goes, I tell them, okay, I’ve reached out to subject matter expert. We’re speaking on Monday. Or well, I should have the copy to you by, you know, the following Monday, whatever it is, you know?

Yeah. So they have a timeframe and I think people, like, particularly a new client likes. I guess a work in progress update.

Rachel: Yeah.

Lynne: Because otherwise they don’t know that you’re going to deliver. They get anxious, especially if they’ve paid you money, they don’t hear from you.

Rachel: Yeah. Wow. It’s quite different because as you were saying earlier, like I get lots of cold leads, so I have more of a step-by-step process that I move people through in order to get to that, you know, period of being hired, I suppose.

Lynne: So tell us about your process. Like, because you get a lot of things from Google my business and stuff, don’t you?

Rachel: Yeah. So that first call, so it was literally someone ringing me out of the blue. They might have seen me on Google my business, or they might have found my website through search and they might ring me and say, Hey, I need a copywriter for my website. And I call this initial client call an evaluation call.

I still think it’s really important. It might be quite short, but these calls are really important because it’s like that first impression, you know, you’re giving this person could be become a potential client. You’re both figuring out if you’re a good fit to work together and if you get it right, it can lead to you landing the work, I suppose.

So evaluation calls are no less important. You’ve got to be super professional and ready to have a set of questions, a script to go through to get to the next step, I suppose.

Lynne: Actually, I’m just going to go back for a second. One thing of this evaluation call and the assessment is that I always connect with somebody on LinkedIn. Do you do that?

Rachel: No, I don’t, but typically do it as part of the project. As I’m going along, but if they’re just, uh, coming in on an evaluation call and I’m not sure if they’re going to be a client yet, I don’t do that, but it’s probably a really good idea to do that because then you’re in there all but a bit more, aren’t you?

Lynne: You are. And then I had somebody who I thought was a really strong lead and, and she said there were challenges with budget and stuff and she needed approval, which is fine. So I didn’t hear back, but I did connect with her on LinkedIn. And so I’ve got a way of connecting with her and following up.

And I do think it keeps you front of mind. Yeah. Sometimes people have an idea, oh, I’d like to do this, and then they go to their boss and their boss says, oh, we can’t do it this quarter. There’s often that sort of stuff. With that sort of an initial call, do you find when it’s sometimes still just an idea in somebody’s head, this is what I need, but I don’t know what it’s going to look like, which is where you are doing your due diligence.

With your cold leads, you tell us about them.

Rachel: Yeah. So I ask four basic questions. And this is for the evaluation call. The very first time someone reaches out. So they might say, hi Rachel, I found you on Google. And I’ll say, great, how can I help you today?

Or what brings you to, to me today? And that prompts them to give me the reason for the call, which might be, I need a website, I need case studies, I need someone to edit my eBook. And I might say, well, tell me a bit about you or a bit about your business or what you do, whatever’s relevant.

And if it is relevant, I’ll also say, who are your customers? Or who are you trying to reach with this project? Or what’s the goal for this project? Because all of that gives you some really good intel. The answers prompt you to ask good follow up questions, and I think those are the questions that makes that person really think deeper about what they need.

And it also showcases your expertise a bit. They start to think, well, this person knows their stuff and they, they could be the person. For me, I always ask about timelines. When do you need this done by? Because that determines if I can fit it into my schedule, really important. And then once they’re warmed up, I’ll always say, do you have a budget in mind?

And I always ask the budget question because it sorts out, you know, who’s aligned with your budget and who really isn’t or has a very unrealistic view of what it might cost to do what they want to do. What about you? Do you ask about budget? I suppose you do because they’re kind of warm leads and then you can just slip the budget question.

Lynne: Well, I give them an indication. They might say, look, we want a series of case studies, and I’d ask about the budget, or I say, well, I do these all the time and ask if they require interviews, I generally charge, you know, sort of $850-ish depending on how many interviews and stuff.

But it’s just to give them a rough idea,. Because I did have one who said, oh, that’s way more than we were paying. I said, well, I can do something for four or 500, but you send me dot points, no interviews and I’ll rewrite it. And they went, okay. And they did that.

And eventually I did a few like that. And occasionally they get me to do a proper interview and stuff. So I think that’s a bit, I think we’re going to come up to that about reducing the scope. But yeah, I think you have to have a discussion generally. I don’t have a problem with that because as you say, my things are warm leads and they probably, I reckon that’s the sort of thing they’d ask the person who refers you.

Rachel: Yeah,

Lynne: like what I’ve heard. What does she cost? What does she usually charge to say, well, we pay a blah. And that’s why you can’t charge somebody new, a lot more money than your existing clients because they probably know.

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah.

Lynne: And so you can’t go, oh cool, I’ve been charging 400, but I’m going to charge this person $800 or you know, 4000 to 8000 or whatever.

You’ve got to have a consistent, I guess, rate card in your head, even if it’s not on your website. You have a services guide that has a lot of that, don’t you?

Rachel: Yeah, I do. I also have something on the Rachel’s List shop, which is a client questionnaire, and that tackles the budget question.

Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Rachel Smith: And I used to do that because, you know, when I was nervous that asking that question, sending a questionnaire kind of takes that out of your hands a little bit because freelancers can be really scared to touch on that budget question. Don’t you think they’re worried about asking it or get awkward about asking?

Lynne: Also, I honestly think that people get stuck on the price more than the value.

Rachel: Yeah.

Lynne: So, I’ve heard of people saying, oh, I charge $700. Yeah. And the people go, Hmm. And then they say, well, I could do it for you for six 50 or could do it for you five. No. You know, and you jump in. I think you’ve got to be confident in your prices.

Well, I think we discussed this very early in the podcast, but when I first started freelancing, I worked as a subeditor and I was getting paid about $500 a day or whatever, $450 or something. I can’t remember. So I wouldn’t do a writing job if it paid less than that. I had a benchmark.

Rachel: Yeah,

Lynne: and I do think clients don’t necessarily care about the price as much as they care about the value you’re offering. So if you say, I can get this done and give the impression that it’ll be done really well professionally, just what you want, they’re usually happy to pay. Yeah. So that’s the thing you have to push rather than the price.

And I think a lot of people get hung up by the price and actually the people that get hung up by the price, well for me, they’re not my people.

Rachel: Yeah. But also a lot of people that come to me for that evaluation call, they have no idea what their budget is. They don’t know what it costs to hire a content writer, what it might cost for a case study or a series of blog posts or copies of their website.

So I get a lot of people saying, I don’t know what my budget is. I have seen so much freelance advice that tell people to run at this point, or, you know, you people have to have worked this out before they approach a freelancer. I see that over and over on LinkedIn and I think it’s not the advice that I would give because you know, you are in conversation with someone and you are putting the price out there, but you are also working with whatever budget they have. So I might say, I think you mentioned, you might say, well, I’ve worked on similar projects, and this is what I charge. So with a copy project, I might say, I’ve worked on similar websites and as a rough estimate, the scope of work you are looking at might be between four and $5,000.

And they’ll be like, right. Or they might say, well look, I’ve only got a budget for two and a half thousand. I might say, okay, here’s what can be done for your web copy within that budget.

Lynne: Yeah.

Rachel: And so you’re not closing the door like that. Other advice where it says no, don’t, take anyone on who has no idea what their budget is, you have to sometimes guide people to what the value is and what things cost, and you’re not closing the door. You’re saying, I can work with your budget and here’s what’s doable for that amount.

Lynne: That’s true. I do think that the more conversations you have about money, the easier they get.

Rachel: Yeah.

Lynne: And once you’ve been around for a while. However, to be a counterpoint to your agreement if people don’t understand or don’t see the value in good copy, they are often the most problematic clients. And I definitely, a couple of people who have said, oh, I don’t know, and I’ve reduced the scope.

It doesn’t always work because they don’t get what they really wanted. They really wanted a really in-depth web page, but they only had $600 or something. And I’ll say, well, I’m happy to do an about us page, and a contact page, and then you can go from there. And then I could do that later.

Once I’ve had somebody come back and and ask me to do the rest of it. But mostly they just end up with a pretty basic page or they get somebody else who’s super cheap and it’s not as good. And it’s a bit of, you know, AI generated probably. So I don’t know. But we had this discussion a long time ago that you like working with small businesses and I don’t tend to.

Rachel: Well, for me, like those smaller projects or web copy projects are good for me because I am fitting stuff in around Rachel’s list. So my two businesses have to coexist together. And so for me, like smaller projects work. But everyone is really different with how they handle budget and the types of clients that they take on.

You mentioned, you know, some people will go, well. This is all I have and this is what I want you to do for it. The way that you can get around that I think is, and you would know this because I’ve seen your proposals where you do a tiered pricing thing.

You’ve got a budget tier with what they asked for and the price they can afford. Then you have the next tier, which is basically everything they actually want. And I’ve told you they want. The actual price on that tier. Then you have a premium tier, which has lots of bells and whistles and is much higher price point, but I often find that people will look at that and assess it and take time to digest, and they will go with what they actually want and find the money, even if it’s a payment plan

Lynne: It’s true. Having options is a really important part. So I often say, you know, I can do a tone of voice document or something like that when that’s what they want.

Particularly if this is the first time they’re commissioned a copywriter. I’ve had somebody who just asked me to do a tone of voice, because I’d done the odd bit of work for them. But they were going to up their brand and they were getting an agency, not a copywriting agency, but an ad agency, and they wanted to give them a tone of voice and they figured that I’d be in the best place to give it to them because I’d been working on their things for a while.

And I find when you give them three options, most people choose the middle option. Occasionally they’ve gone premium, and that’s so nice. Love that. It’s a lovely surprise. But yeah, usually it’s the middle option because when they say, Ooh, if we spend this little bit more and we can get what we really want, as you say, it makes a big difference.

I do think you have to be prompt with your quotes and your proposals. I mean, it’s good to have a template in your files, whether it’s your own or one from Rachel’s List. You’ve got one, haven’t you?

Rachel: I do proposals in two ways. So one might be a quote where we’ve actually found, you know, it might be a small job and scope is kind of really well defined, but I will put that on a quote within Rounded.

And the really great thing about Rounded quotes is the person just has to click a button to accept the quote and then it turns it into an invoice. Yeah. Which is like happy days. I don’t need to do that.

Lynne: I do something similar. Yeah. If a, a small job or a simple job. Um, because sometimes they just want to know how much it’s going to cost and they’re okay with that.

Rachel: Yeah.

Lynne: And I do have a client that I tend to do work every three or four years and she, when she releases a new product and I just do something and I find that that’s really helpful. She just wants to know how much it is compared to last time.

Rachel: Yeah. Well, the other way that you can do it, if you’re not going to do that in an accounting package, you could just do an email estimate, which is quite simple, but has tiers on it and it gets people thinking and, but one tip that I always do is I say, this is valid for seven days.

Because it just creates that little bit of FOMO. It lets them know that you’re in demand,

Lynne: People can sit on these things for a long time. I’ve often had people sit on something for three or four months and come back and say, oh, we’ve got a new financial year. We are ready to go with that.

And you think, oh, and then you have to go back and find out what you quoted them and you think, oh, yeah. Or sometimes worse, they’ve come back and said, we want to do this, but we want you to talk to people and you’ve just got to make sure that the quote they’re accepting and their scope match, because sometimes that happens when you do emails.

I do proposals for new bits of work in new clients, and I usually take bits out of either our chat or an email if that’s what it is, you know, so this proposal is to provide, you know, 10 case studies as part of a campaign to promote this and blah, blah, blah. So I usually cut and paste things so it’s clear what, what I’m doing, and then I put in all the different terms and conditions that I have.

What what sort of conditions do you have?

Rachel: I put 50% upfront on a big project. If it’s a recurring client and I know that they’re a prompt payer, I might lower that sometimes, especially if it’s really expensive project, I might do 25% upfront and then I’ll do progression payments throughout the project on web copy projects I have.

I used to say I would really like you to get an SEO report. Now I make that non-negotiable because, um, I just think that if you are going to the expense of doing a website, you want to really optimise it to make sure, to the best of your ability, it has the best chance of showing up in Google and AI search.

So I have certain non-negotiables and they’re in a services guide that I send over with the proposal so people know how I work and what sort of involvement I expect

Lynne: Yeah. I usually have all those little terms and conditions, such as payment on acceptance or delivery. I also have only two rounds of corrections.

Rachel: Yeah.

Lynne: Which is a classic thing.

Rachel: Yeah. But you have to specify. See, corrections is a good word. I do light edit because,

Lynne: I think I say changes.

Rachel: Yeah, because say that you get someone who goes, I hate it and I want the whole thing rewritten, and it’s like, that is very murky, you’re into murky water then.

Lynne: So it hasn’t happened I think maybe once.

Rachel: Yeah.

Lynne: And it’s usually about the brief. Some people recommend doing a draft, if you’re not sure what they want or if it’s somebody who’s new to this sort of work, you might send them a draft just to make sure that the structure is on there.

I haven’t actually had that happen. I did rewrite something recently quite a bit, and I think the brief wasn’t as clear, but that was okay. We, I just did it. Yeah. I normally just redo it. It’s pretty rare that I’ve had a problem though, to be honest.

Rachel: I just wanted to mention something before we move on to the next type of client call.

I just want to mention evaluation calls, which we were just talking about. How you end them is really important, so I always say, thanks for that info, that all sounds interesting. How about I send over him an estimate and some info about how I work and we can go from there? And I send that the one, what we were just discussing within 24 hours and bang, bang.

And this is where it comes in so handy to have canned copy ready like your, for your estimates, especially if you’re doing similar projects.

Lynne: Yeah.

Rachel: And that’s where we have like a deal for Type Desk at Rachel’s list, which is like a canned responses thing. So you can jam it with all kinds of copy that, that you use, so it’s easy to send an estimate out. It’s easy to modify.

I do seven days on my quotes. And also I let them know when I can get them into my schedule so they know there’s a slot that they have to act fast. So I basically say I can start on April the second. And you know, that seems to work really well as well.

Lynne: Oh, do you? That’s interesting. I never do. I, I wait till acceptance, then I talk schedule because some people sit on things for a little while.

Rachel: Yeah.

Lynne: And then sometimes I detail the expected delivery date on my proposal, such as mid-April and with a draft by mid-April, finalised by end of April or something like that. But I haven’t done it as much lately because I find that people sit on things and then they want it straight away. Yeah. So if and when they sign it, I go, great. I can get this to you by mid-April and a draft by, you know, and do it then, because I find that people tend to sit on things, but they still want it within the original timeframe.

Rachel: it’s funny, isn’t it? Like all the projects that I do to, unless they’re editorial and I’m getting a deadline from an editor, they have to fit in my schedule. And the interesting thing is that I’ve done this year is I’ve started to say to people, I never used to, but I’ve started to say, I would love to do this. I’d love to work with you on this, but I cannot fit you in until a date, say two months in advance of that, that discussion.

And lots of people say, fine, that gives me a chance to collect all the information that you need. It gives me a chance to get some voice of customer people for you to talk to.

It gives me, you know, so actually that’s working really well. I’m currently booked up two months in advance right now.

It’s more they’re fitting in with me.

Lynne: Well, I sort of do the same, but I wait for them to do it, and then I tell them when my availability is because also I don’t really count anything as being confirmed until they send me the deposit or they confirm in writing.

Rachel: Okay. Well look, we don’t have a lot of time, but Stacey did ask us to touch on those more complex client calls, which people call discovery calls. Do you do those or are that your sort?

Lynne: I do a bit. I call them a briefing call. I think one of the main things that I think Stacey asked about was the sort of phrasing you use.

I definitely use a lot of what they call reflective listening. Or reflective responses. So I’d say, so you are wanting an about page or this page, or you are wanting me to interview this architect and it’s about this project. So I reflect back to them what they’re exactly asking, and that clarifies it.

If they’re go, oh, no, no, no, you don’t need to speak to the architect. We’ve got a transcript. Sometimes they’re not clear. I think that clarifies things. It also shows that you are listening.

Rachel: Mm.

Lynne: And I think that’s really important. I always send them notes afterwards. I now find AI saves me a lot of time.

So they clarify right at the beginning what needs to be done. And I think that’s part of that discovery call. It’s the clarification, making sure that they know you’re listening.

Rachel: Yeah. I love that. Mm. So I do discovery calls in my process as part of the project.

So basically I’ve done the evaluation, I’ve done the proposal. They’ve said, yes, they’ve paid this commencement invoice. Then I’m like, right, let’s do the deep dive call, which is one to two hours.

And it’s really me going deep into their business why they started it. What brought them to that point?

That info can be good for about pages because I do a lot of web copy.

We talk in-depth about their customers, their competitors, the problems they’re solving, why people might choose them over their competitors. It’s a huge call. Everybody is exhausted after it and you really don’t want Otter to go down when you are on that call, because you really need that transcript.

It’s a big part of the project. So, yeah. But I think that there is so much that goes into a discovery call. We actually, if you’re a gold member of Rachel’s list, you can check out Treasa Edmond’s Lunch Club on discovery calls, and she’s got an amazing cheat sheet as well, which we would highly recommend because that goes really deep into how to run a discovery call.

Lynne: I think those things are great when you’ve got a big project, like a web thing. I don’t tend to do a lot of that stuff. Yeah. Most of mine is what traditionally called content like blog posts, case studies, you know, maybe white papers, that sort of thing.

So I don’t always need that sort of comprehensive. In-depth things. And also, there’s not many corporates that I deal with it would give me an hour or two. Sometimes I’m lucky to get 15 minutes. Yeah. But that’s usually just because it’s a simple project.

Rachel: Yeah.

Lynne: Back in the day, I’d often go in and meet people. Which I think is really good if you can do that, if you can do that even once in your relationship with a client. It really embeds you into their process. They understand you. I think that’s really good if you can do that. I mean, even if they’re in another state, say they’re Melbourne based, you are Sydney, or in the country, you could say, I’m actually going to be in Melbourne at some stage. How about we have a coffee? No reason. It really does make a difference.

Rachel: I think so as well. It just builds that rapport and that trust and yeah. I mean that’s a whole other episode, meeting people in person, but it is huge in a trust recession,

Well, we have covered a lot in this episode.

We’ve talked about how to build rapport, how to position yourself as an expert and more of a partner than an order taker. Yeah, we’ve talked about briefing calls,

Lynne: how to get people over the line,

Rachel: how to get people over the line. We’ve talked about those very first evaluation calls that come through with when you’re not expecting it, but you have to have a little script in place.

Um, we’ve talked a little bit about discovery calls. Is there anything we haven’t talked about that we should mention?

Lynne: I’m sure there is, but I can’t think of it at the moment. But you know, maybe if anyone else likes this idea and would like us to go in depth in one of these issues, happy to do that. We’d love to get some feedback.

Rachel: Yes, and we will put a whole heap of things in the show notes, because we did talk about tiered pricing, tiered proposals. We have blog posts on that. I’ll talk about some of the stuff I mentioned that are in the Rachel’s List Shop. Just a few resources that might be helpful in helping you get that next client call over the line to a job.

Lynne: Fantastic. Great, and we’ll be back next week with another guest.

Credits:

Here are links to some of the article we discuss:

• Why to offer tiered pricing (blog) https://rachelslist.com.au/why-you-should-offer-tiered-pricing-as-a-freelancer/
• Client brief template (shop) https://rachelslist.com.au/portfolio/client-brief-template/
• Quoting freelance projects with Lynne Testoni https://rachelslist.com.au/portfolio/21062/

Gold members of Rachel’s List can listen to the lunch club with Treasa Edmond on nailing discovery calls, which includes her downloadable checklist. https://rachelslist.com.au/freelance-writing-jobs-australia/lunch-club-library/

Find Lynne www.lynnetestoni.com

Find Rachel www.rachelsmith.com.au

Rachel’s List www.rachelslist.com.au

Thanks (as always) to our sponsors Rounded (www.rounded.com.au), an easy invoicing and accounting solution that helps freelancers run their businesses with confidence. Looking to take advantage of the discount for Rachel’s List Gold Members? Email us at: hello@rachelslist.com.au for the details.

Episode edited by Marker Creative Co www.markercreative.co