How freelancers can find work through referrals – with Sarah Hubbard

Sarah Hubbard: Introverts may not love networking because it takes a lot from them, so they’re also some of the best networkers because they’re amazing, active listeners, and they don’t love to talk about themselves. And so, you’d be so surprised, what they take away and what they’re impressed worth, with versus what they think the other person might have said or done.

Rachel: Hello and welcome to The Content Byte, a podcast for freelancers who use their words to make money. I’m Rachel Smith, a freelance journalist, copywriter, and content producer. I’m also the founder of Rachel’s List, a jobs board and community for Australian writers and other creatives. 

Lynne: I’m Lynne Testoni! I’m a journalist and content writer as well. Rachel and I are your weekly co-hosts, and every week we bring you all kinds of tips, tricks, and some fabulous guests to help you make the most of your freelance business.

Rachel: Hi, Lynne! I think today’s topic is very much your thing – all about referrals as a way of finding clients, and I think that’s interesting for everybody right now who are all trying to find work and clients. 

Lynne: It is my thing.  I mean, I get almost all my work from referrals. Maybe it’s something about the longevity that I’ve had in this business, but I think it’s a really important topic and super helpful.

Rachel: I know. I’m excited we’ve got Sarah Hubbard. She’s the author of The Intentional Networker, and she built a $2 million business where 85% of revenue comes from referral partnerships, which is wild. I’m really excited to talk to her. 

Lynne: I am too. Amazing. I think it proves that freelancers can generate predictable income without cold pitching, which I know that heaps of us hate the cold pitching. And she’s going to tell us all about her method and how she works. 

Welcome, Sarah!

Rachel: Welcome. 

Sarah: Thanks for having me. I’m honoured to be here with you lovely ladies. 

Lynne: Oh, thanks so much for coming on the pod. And I understand your passion is all about turning networking into revenue, which is so good.

How about you tell us where you started and how this idea came about? 

Sarah: The idea started where I was in a sales role in residential mortgage financing here in the States – the only female at my company, and I had watched for about six years a bunch of gentlemen send direct mailers, basically like a cold outreach.

People would call in, we’d talk about the scenario, they’d quote it, and that’s how they built their entire databases for twenty-five plus years. And so, I watched it be successful, took their lead on it because they didn’t know how to teach me any other different ways, and about $60,000 later in debt and eight months in, I was drowning. 

It’s not even, one, functioning in debt – most people don’t function super well, but two, there was no personalisation. People were calling me and they’re like, “What’s the rate?” And I’m like, “What’s your name? I mean, I don’t know. The rate could be a lot of things. There could also be a lot of other things that I could help refer you out to.”

And so I decided to try to venture out and figure out another way to get business, and turned out I stumbled upon the world of networking through relationships and referral partners, and started there and really just learned how to do it that aligned with me, that felt good, and started attracting the right people in my corner. That we worked well together, our clients were aligned with each other, and so it was a seamless effort.

Now when I talk to people and I’m helping them and adding value to them, networking has just naturally been something that are like, how do you do this? Tell me how. And it turned out I had a framework built in that I didn’t even know that I was doing myself, systems that I had built in, and then I just started talking publicly about it and teaching people about it, and I am very passionate about people finding the right relationships but that actually align with them and the magic that they are, not because the extrovert in the room has had success with it or Lynne or Rachel have had success with it, but truly what aligns with them.

Rachel: I love a framework. Can you tell us about that? 

Sarah: Yes. A framework is always key. So, it’s called the MAPP framework, M-A-P-P. So, the M stands for mindset and intention, the A stands for authentic presence, and if I could add into the acronym a C that made sense, I would also add curiosity here.

Precise messaging, and then purposeful follow-through. That’s the general framework that I have, and in my book, I have, AI prompts that can help you work through each of these frameworks that you can work through. And I believe when you can go through all of these and master them, you will be a referral machine and attracting the right people as you go.

Lynne: Wow. 

Rachel: So, mortgage loans, in that space, interesting, you got some insights from it. Why do you think referrals came up as such a strong lead idea in that area? 

Sarah: So, I think my company in general was just late to the game, because I talk to tons of other mortgage professionals across the world, right? It’s called different things in different areas of the world, but that is actually how the average layperson that does what I do grows their business.

So, when I talk about how my company does business, people are like, “Say what? You’re sending tens of thousands of flyers to people across the country and hoping that they just call you back? What’s the return on that? What’s this?” And it’s actually not as terrible as one would think, because we are targeted with it. We don’t just spray and pray as a company. We pick different areas of area and median incomes, and appreciation values on homes, and different things. So, it is targeted to an extent that we can. 

But in regard to the networking piece of it for me, it’s just the company, my company itself just wasn’t aware of it, and if you asked them today if any of them would do it, their answer to me is, “We’d rather flip burgers at McDonald’s.” And I’m like, “Okay. Well, I have no desire to do either of those things, so I will continue down my journey to continue to meet quality people,” because I also believe that everybody has stories. Especially as entrepreneurs, freelancers, ten ninety-nine contractors, you name it, we’ve all been through the ups and downs, and a lot of times when you’re vulnerable enough to share that, it’s part of what I preach in my authentic presence, is being vulnerable enough to share just a little bit.

If you’re not a heart on your sleeve kind of person, that’s okay. You don’t have to be. But you need to share a little bit of that personal, because that helps bridge gaps of trust, and “Ooh, we have this in common,” and can bridge off of that quicker than, “Hey, my name is… and this is what I do.” Some of that small talk that feels a little forced.

Lynne: Interesting. 

 So, you still work in the mortgage business, or what sort of client work do you do now?

Sarah: I do still work in the mortgage business. I have a team of four that I have built out. And my job now has just been solely on the education piece of my mortgage side. So, when clients are referred to me, I’m doing a lot of the trust building upfront, the education, and then passing it off to my team to handle the crossing of the T’s and dotting of the I’s.

So, I still do that, but I’ve been also leaning more into, over the last two years, public speaking and getting out there and teaching people how to do this, in workshops, in bigger conferences. I also run my own networking group that meets once a month virtually, because I felt there was a little bit of a gap between business owners that were just starting, business owners that were maybe three to five years into the business, six figures of revenue, and wanting to scale more but not work harder.

And there’s ways that we can do that with hiring, with putting the right people in your corner, AI, all these different topics, and so that is something that I was really passionate about, building myself that wasn’t a Business Networking International, a BNI, or some other networking groups that are industry-specific.

You have to track all your leads and, and do this, and there’s some accountability, and there are some good things that come from that. But I also believe if you’re far enough along and surround yourself with people that are farther along in their career and their experiences, it will challenge you and will have you rise up, and then you can also learn what they did so you don’t repeat the same mistakes, hopefully twice. Or pivot what they took because it maybe didn’t work for them, but that sounds like it might work for your business a little bit better, so let me try this idea, pivot this one thing, and then launch it myself. 

Rachel: I love what you said about tracking everything. So, is that something that you think freelancers make a mistake with when they’re networking, is they don’t note down who they met and what was interesting about that person and follow up with that person?

Is that something we should all be doing? 

Sarah: 100%. The last P of my framework, the purposeful follow-through, is all about the systemisation and the noting down of who you connect with. And you don’t have to have an extensive CRM, right? You don’t need to be spending hundreds of dollars a month. It could be as simple as an Excel spreadsheet to something you already have.

I’ve seen people use Google, Airtable. I’ve seen people use a ton of free technology that exists, and quite frankly, you can probably create something in any of the AI platforms as well. What I do when I am leaving an event, I am a big ChatGPT and Claude user for my AI. Again, you use the platform that you feel best with, but all of the platforms, you can talk to them.

So, I will leave an event, and I will just start talking to it, “I met Lynne. She lives in Australia. She gets tons of her business from referrals. Her kids are a little bit older. I met Rachel. She’s got a younger son named Charlie.” Anything that I could have that I took in, business and personal, I’m just talking it into ChatGPT, and I’m saying I have my chat linked to my CRM so that I just tell it, “Hey, take these notes, put it in, mark them,” and I’ll get into this in a second, A, B, C or nothing, and then also give me the promises and introductions that I said I was going to do, give me some email templates for that, and then also add it to when I’m supposed to, check in with them next.

So, for me, that’s how I use the AI, because for me, I have thirty minutes from when I leave something to when I have to go home and mum. So, I don’t have all the time in the world to necessarily dump it like I used to do just by typing, so that’s how I use AI, and it also intertwines. It just, AI learns me better because it’s hearing how I speak. It’s hearing what I took from that conversation so that it’s continually to give me better output as I go. 

But my framework with the purposeful follow-through is I mark people that I meet with, and I put everybody in there. A’s, B’s, C’s or nothing. A’s are – these are people that, one, I really enjoy and could potentially fuel my business or my contract work in big ways. There’s big opportunity here. You don’t necessarily need hundreds of these people. You probably only need five, ten, or fifteen of these people that can reliably be giving you two to three opportunities a month. That’s solid. That’s reliable stuff that’s coming in, and depending upon sales cycles, you’re touching base with them every two, three weeks, maybe once a month.

And when I mean touch base, I mean picking up the phone and having a conversation, sending them a podcast episode that you made me think of you, hearing a pain point that they had and seeing an article or an email that came through and forwarding it to them, be like, “Hey, I thought of you. See if this helps with your IT security problem or your paid advertisement problem, whatever it may be, and let’s schedule together to get a drink, a coffee, a lunch.”

You’re keeping in touch with them. People always get hung up on the add value piece of it. It doesn’t need to be this over huge reach, but it needs to be personalised, and it can’t be automated all the time. B’s are, I like you. I think our business might have some sort of overlap or opportunities to refer back and forth to each other, but maybe not as much as A’s, so I’m going to touch base with you maybe every other month.

I’m again, sending them personalisation based off of the conversations that we had. C’s are, you’re great. I’m going to see you out in the community, but our businesses are oil and water, right? So, there’s not a ton of overlap that we may have, but I still want to be top of mind when it comes to my profession.

So, I’m touching base with them every six months, maybe quarterly, whatever that timeframe looks like. And then a no designation for me, it’s just a no for me. They’re still in my database. They’re still maybe on my automated reach-outs or I connected with them on social but they’re not getting any of the specialness that is you.

And the key to this is that you have to actually work your list, just like you would work for clients, just like you would follow up with if you pitched something or applied for an opportunity. You don’t just follow up once and then hope that it goes well. You should be following up multiple times, and the same thing has to happen with your network.

So, for me, I spend about thirty minutes every Friday to just touch base on my list. Did I contact all my A’s last week? Do I have anybody outstanding? No. Bs, great. Cs. And that works for me. But I block it out on my calendar, and that’s where that relationship building comes in more and more and more and deeper.

Rachel: Wow. This is so far from the handbag with twenty abandoned business cards at the bottom that you never look at again. It really is. It’s involved, but good.

Sarah: Well, and you can also take those business cards and take pictures of them and have that go into your CRM or whatever it is. Business cards to me are not dead. I think I talk about this in my book. People that have electronic cards probably prefer email or text message communication versus somebody that has a regular business card is maybe a little bit more phone driven than they are quick technology. And it’s just a glimpse of data of information. But I have been there, where I get in my car and you’re like, “Oh my God, I’ve got like fifty business cards in here that just got shoved in my hand, and now ugh, did I go back and do anything with these? No. No. Great.”

Lynne: My desk has quite a few business cards scattered around it.

Rachel: It’s so great how you… that’s a good case for AI, isn’t it? Where you’re talking into it and it puts it immediately in your database for you. I love that. That’s clever.   

Lynne: Tell us, have you got a – I think you said you had a great real-life example of how this works.

Sarah: Well, I’ve got great real-life examples of how this works. But I’ll give you a little bit, kind of goes into my backstory and then a little bit on how it has bloomed today. So, when I first started at networking, strong referral partners for a lot of mortgage professionals here in the States are real estate agents, financial planners or advisors, divorce attorneys, people that are dealing with very emotional, typically large money transactions when something’s happening in somebody’s life. Those are also very crowded industries, and so when I first was out there thinking, “Oh, these are the people I need to talk to,” I was like one of a hundred people that were trying to get in touch with them. Especially people that were actually doing work, not just holding this job title.

So, it took a really long time to the endpoint of finding the right people. But I was at a dinner, it was called, it was a black-tie event dinner of all ladies, and I remember sitting there, and they randomly sat you at places, and I was sitting next to what is now my top referral partner in my business. I had heard she was a real estate agent. She had stood up and said she was a real estate agent, and I was like, “Great.” And I just started talking to her as a person. I found out she was divorced. I found out she has two kids. She was a previous neonatal intensive care unit nurse over at Children’s Hospital here in the States. Just all about her as a person. We did talk a little bit about business, about how we’ve grown and different things like that, and as we were leaving, I was like, “It was really great to connect with you. I really look forward to having another coffee.” And she’s like, “Wait, you’re not going to ask me for my business?” And I was like, “I just wanted to make sure I liked you first.” 

And I mean that with a lot of grace. It, it was not meant to be mean, but there is sometimes when people are just so anxious for the business piece of it, it doesn’t necessarily feel super genuine, that whole conversation that you just had was just ask questions because you felt like you had to. It wasn’t because you were actually interested in knowing about what that person was all about. 

Rachel: And curious. 

Sarah: And curious, yes. 

For me, that magic started happening between her and I in about five months, but it took a couple coffees, a handwritten note on both of our behalf, and just more consistent connection. And now we probably… I think we closed last year probably over ten million in volume between the two of us referring back and forth to each other. It works great. She knows how I work; I know how she works, and as people, we complement each other really well because I have a physical therapy background and medical background. So, for us, we have that connection. 

So going in and asking questions about the person, it doesn’t have to be 100% match, but if you know that your values align as people, there’s probably a great chance that those referrals that are getting passed back and forth feel great between the two of you.

Lynne: And that’s why it’s really nice to connect with people as a person rather than just their business card or their job title. Definitely. Yes. 

Rachel: We just had Mel Barfield on the podcast, who’s a copywriter in the UK, and she talked a lot about that. Go in and be curious, and that’s the end of it.

Don’t go in with an agenda or, I hope I’m going to get work out of this, or I’m going to meet someone who can refer me or give me work because it’s just… it’s not going to build those genuine, authentic connections. 

Sarah: I do encourage people to go in and make sure you have an ask for yourself whether it’s business-related, personal-related, whatever it is that you’re looking to do, connections. If you go in planning to have an ask, just make sure that you get that ask in. But if you don’t go with an ask, what I find, and I’m going to pick on women for a hot minute, is that women tend to feel like it’s too salesy, and I don’t want to say that. Freelance, W-2’d employee, ten ninety-nine employee, it doesn’t matter. 

Lynne: Can I just say, I have no idea what a ten ninety-nine employee is. We don’t have that here in Australia. 

Sarah: Sorry. I’m so sorry. Basically, it is a freelancer, a contractor. So, they are not- 

Lynne: That makes sense.

Sarah: necessarily working with a company. But they are brought on for either long-term work, short-term work, part-time work, whatever that may look like.  

Rachel: I’ve never heard that term either. Funny.

Sarah: It’s a States thing. 

Rachel: It must be. Interesting. 

Sarah:  Sorry for all of us, global humans that don’t know what that is. 

Rachel: I think, before we move on, I would like you to give some examples of what an ask might be. That’s non-salesy, I suppose. 

Sarah: Yes. So, I have gone in and asked for… I use this a lot, because I’m always curious about networking groups that people are a part of that they actually enjoy and get business from.

So, I ask them where they’re spending their time outside of where we might have met. Tell me what you really liked about that group. Has it been beneficial for you, or have you delivered a bunch of value and not necessarily felt like you got anything back? What would you improve in that group? 

That is, selfishly, I ask those questions because I want to know where people are spending their time and what else exists out there that maybe I don’t know about yet. I’ve also asked for, “Hey, I have this person that I was talking to, and they’re looking for a new bookkeeper and accountant. Do you know anybody in your network that you wholeheartedly trust?” And it’s not necessarily an ask for Sarah, but now I have found the solution to the person that I was talking to before from another reliable person, and I’m able to make that introduction that way.

The other thing that I’ve used a lot is, who’s your go-to person when you’re struggling in your business that you call and know that you would get amazing, wholeheartedly honest advice, and they’re just your person? personal, professional, who you’re going to call. Or who’s the best web designer that you’ve ever worked with? I would love an introduction to them. Those are the people that keep you elevating your game and just growing your internal network beyond. That’s not just, “I need a client, I need an opportunity, I need this, I need that.” 

Rachel: These are really interesting because they’re not asks for your business, they’re kind of lateral connection asks that also make the other person feel good.

Sarah: Yes. And you could have an ask for your business. I’ve had plenty of people say, “I’m struggling with my website. I started making it myself and, I’m stuck in just this pause period that feels terrible. Do you have a good web designer that you could introduce me to?” I have two. Here you go. Talk to both of them, make sure they feel great. So, it could be, but for me, I’m trying to think of ways to just elevate who I surround myself with, my referral network that I’m looking to have, because that just helps bring potential better opportunities into my world, for whatever looks like when people come to me.

Lynne: I agree. I think I spend a lot of time connecting people. I deal a lot with builders and architects and things, and that’s the sort of people I write about. But I’m often connecting an architect with a builder, or an interior designer, or sometimes, some of the magazines I write for, or a photographer that might specialise in that sort of work.

So, I find… And of course, inevitably, the photographer thinks of me when they get a similar thing or, I do it just because I like to promote good people. 

Rachel: But it becomes cyclical, so it’s a good thing to do.

Lynne: It does.

Rachel: I wanted to touch on a question for people that really hate networking and avoid it at all costs.  

Lynne: I think a few of our listeners are introverts and they hate leaving the house. We need to get them out of the house perhaps. 

Rachel: Yes. How can you get beyond that, and sort of maybe not embrace it, but tolerate it, and even learn to like it in some way?

Sarah: My first tip is preparation before you walk into that room. So I’m not sure about any groups or communities that you guys may be a part of, but a lot of the communities here that I’m a part of either have a website that lists everybody that’s a part of that community, or you can get a list of people that are going to attend before you walk into that room. And this even goes for conferences. 

Rachel: So valuable. 

Sarah: Yes, this goes for chamber, wherever you’re spending your time. The prompt in my book, and I’ll give you guys the AI freebies at the end that we can post in the show notes. It takes those, and you have to tell it what you’re looking for and what you do in your business. And if you can drop in people’s names, businesses, and tell it, “Give me five people that I need to meet at this event. Tell me why and give me five icebreaker questions before I walk into that room.” You will feel a heck of a lot more prepared, and your ask now becomes, “Hey, Lynne, do you know Rachel Smith? I’m looking to meet with her. Do you mind making that introduction?” “Oh, Rachel’s here. Come on with me. I’ll make that introduction.” And now we’re not standing on this outskirt of a circle trying to break in, and white knuckling a drink, that I see all the time. 

I would also advise my introverts, if you know you have an event coming up that day, try to keep your workload that day, light. Don’t have heavy conferences or a big sales call or a big pitch that you’re putting out that day. That’s a huge energy drain for anybody, especially my introverts, and the last thing that you’re going to want to do is have a bucket of energy when you’re walking into a room and feel like you need to be on.

So, try to manage your, if I know I have an event Wednesday night, I’m going to try not to put fifteen meetings on my calendar today. That’s going to drain you. But I tell people a lot, networking with a buddy is great, and leverage the extroverts. There’s always people that are working before you walk into a room in a networking event.

Ask them if they know somebody, and they’ll walk you right over and make that introduction if that person’s there and leverage people that don’t mind being the icebreakers. I’m one of those. I’m an extrovert. I love to know the room, and I’m like, “Come with me. I will say all the good things and show you.”

Leverage those big people, baby. And I will also say… 

Lynne: I do that, too. 

Sarah: Introverts are also, they may not love networking, because it takes a lot from them, so they’re also some of the best networkers, because they’re amazing, active listeners, and they don’t love to talk about themselves. And so, you’d be so surprised what they take away and what they’re impressed worth, with versus what they think the other person might have said or done.

So, give yourself some credit, and go out there, and please just be yourself. Don’t be anybody else and just be curious and find questions to ask for others and leverage the extroverts. 

Rachel: I love that advice. Again, another really great case for AI, and it’d be great to see these prompts. So, we will definitely put them in the show notes.

But it kind of brings to memory when we did our conference, The Content Byte Summit, we would put the party on before the conference so that people weren’t walking into the conference not having met anybody that was going to be sitting next to them. And it worked so brilliantly. But I also love the idea of, because I’ve got an event coming up myself, and I just thought, “Well, maybe I should put a list of who’s coming,” and in an email to everybody who’s coming so that they can know who’s going to be there. I might have to ask for consent to do that, but I think that would be… 

Lynne: That’s a nice idea. 

Rachel: really interesting to do that, and see how it, how it changes the vibe of the day when you’re walking in and you already know that fifteen people, you’ve already looked them up and followed them on LinkedIn, and got a sense of who they are. 

Sarah: I was going to say, you could share LinkedIn profile links if that’s comfortable, their business websites. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a ton of personal information, but AI is really great at deducing some of that when you’re able to put that in. And it just does what maybe probably took us two or three hours of research, it can be done in ten minutes.

Rachel: Amazing.  

Lynne: That is interesting. Certainly, I do a lot with LinkedIn, at these functions and stuff like that, and that little LinkedIn hack where you sort of share your personal QR code, and everyone seems to have LinkedIn. I use a card as well. Although, see, I was at a function last night, and I gave out a couple of cards, and to be honest, at the end I was one of the last people to leave that table, and my cards were still on the table. And I thought, “Ah, see, it would’ve been much better to have connected with them via LinkedIn.” 

Rachel: It’s just not you or the cards; it’s just the fact that people do things so differently now or have a different.

Lynne: And they don’t want to take cards home in a small handbag and then have them lost on the desk like here.

Rachel: Exactly. 

Lynne: It’s interesting. 

I did get a tip ages ago from a podcast saying that when you’re in a room where you don’t know anyone, to go up to a group of two. So, because a group of one person by themselves is fine, but sometimes you speak to them and realise you have nothing in common with that person, and then you’re stuck. 

Rachel: Exiting is tough.

Lynne: Whereas with a group of two it’s easy to exit if it’s not right or they’re not your people. And usually, a group of two doesn’t mind a third person coming in and chatting as a break from just chatting to themselves. And that always seems to work, and it’s not such a big group. Going into a group of five or six is quite intimidating, but a group of two is quite achievable. 

Rachel: Yes. Yes.  

Sarah: I love that tip, Lynne. That’s really great. 

Lynne: So, we did talk about AI, and so we’ll love those prompts. And I can’t remember if you said this on air or not, that you’re expecting your second child, which is very exciting. Congratulations. 

Sarah: Thank you. 

Lynne: So how are you restructuring your business to take this into account? 

Sarah: Well, that’s a great question. I will tell you, as someone that had big aspirations of speaking on twenty-five stages in 2026 and growing a little bit more of the consulting business, when, we saw the positive pregnancy test in January, I was like, “Big pivot happening in 2026” and not what I thought was happening. And I’ll be honest, mentally, it was a little bit of a struggle for me to subtract instead of add because I think as any type of entrepreneur, freelancer, we’re always striving for more, more, do more. And if we do more, we’re going to get more outcomes. And so, I’ve had to subtract, and that has led me to go deeper instead of wider in not only my mortgage business but also my networking business and how I’m delivering these topics and being more intentional with my time and also my connections. 

Before I would speak to a lot of people, and now I am taking five connections a week, and then it’s going into the next. And if that means that I’m booking six weeks out, then I’m booking six weeks out because that’s capacity. And I will tell you, going deeper. Well as much as my mental capacity, I’ve fought it and have little, “Oh, you’re not doing enough,” or some of those inner dialogue demons that I have. I’ve had the best three months of my mortgage business. 

Lynne: Oh, really? 

Sarah: The past three months. And I have had beautiful opportunities in the networking space that’s actually aligning more with probably to speak in ’27 versus ’26 or speaking virtually versus being in person. And I love in person, so I’m always wanting to do in person, and I was kind of down on the Zoom piece of it.

But now, turns out I’ve met some incredible people, like you two. I’m never going to probably meet you guys in person on a regular basis because we live on two opposite sides of the world. But an opportunity like this has led to that. And so, subtracting and going deeper has been a huge adjustment, but wildly encouraged.

I hear people talk about it. 

Lynne: Interesting. 

Sarah: I hear really seasoned entrepreneurs that, I have talked about it and it’s made a difference, and I’ve gone through the battle. I’m still battling a little bit in my head, but I have seen the kind of relief and when I can walk out of my office and just be with my family for a little while and not feel like I have to get this piece of content pushed or this created or this piece of work written or whatever it is.

I’ve done all that I could do because I actually have the time now, and my schedules just not jam-packed.  

Rachel: I only have the one kid, but I know that the older he got, the more I took another step forward and took another… a little bit back for my business and a bit back for me, and it just got more and more the older well, he’s 11 now. So, the older he gets, the more my business seems to evolve and grow, which is really interesting. I have more time to myself. 

Sarah: The responsibilities change a little bit when it comes to a little bit more independence, but at this moment in my life with growing a human and having a three-and-a-half-year-old, they will require all of me to be present. There’s no badge of honour by being Wonder Woman and doing it all. I think that society does put that on people, but you don’t have to. 

Lynne: No, you don’t have to take it on, definitely not.

Rachel: I think listening to you, what you have differently to what I had when I had little kids, you’re in that stage of life, is you have all the systems and the foundations set up, right? So, you can step away for a bit and still come back, and all those foundations are still there and solid and you can just pick it back up again.

Lynne: Fantastic. 

Sarah: Systems are key. I would wholly recommend it and let AI help you if you have no idea where to start building those systems. It is a beautiful tool for that as well. 

Rachel: Well, on that note, what’s one thing a freelancer listening right now can do today to start building a referral engine? Because I love what we’ve talked about referrals in a sense of you’re just creating relationships and they come naturally instead of going up to someone and saying, “Hey, is there someone else that you know who might need me?” Which is, kind of a bit clunky sometimes. How can we build that referral engine?

Sarah: I spent a lot of time in my early stages of networking going to all the events and doing all the things because I thought more exposure would be better for me. And kind of picking on to what I just said about subtracting and going deeper, I think it’s really, really important for people that are freelancers to be as intentional with your connections at each event that you do, and find at max three networking opportunities, masterminds, conferences, whatever it may be. 

I would not do more than three a month, and go deep with them and get the five, two or five people that are really, really powerful that are opening up their networks to you as well. And go prepared and nurture those relationships so that you can start building reliable sources of opportunities that are coming on a more consistent basis.

So, it’s not more is better. I think more intentional and deeper is better and will give you better opportunities. 

Rachel: Love that. 

Lynne: I think it’s true too, because often you go… But going to anything, even if it’s not your thing, you learn a bit. 

Sarah: All day. 

Lynne: And somebody there, you can say, “I don’t know if this is my crowd.” Part of that intention, somebody said, “Actually, I get more value out of this event or this workshop.” And you go, “Okay.”  “Noted.” I think I’ve done that, because last year I went to all the things, which was great, and I learnt a lot, and I broadened my network, I guess. But this year I’m much more intentional. I’m finding it more valuable. It’s quite good.   

Sarah: And those take time. 

Lynne: It does. 

Sarah: I just want to encourage people; this is not an overnight success.  This is time and trials and errors. 

Rachel: Absolutely. It’s a slow burn. Yes. 

Lynne: It’s a slow burn. Yes. It is a slow burn.

And you do it because you have to be genuine about it, not because you’re trying to make money or gain clients.   because people can spot that too. 

Rachel: But this is such a good thing to start to do right now when business is a little bit trickier. That referral engine, it’s a smart thing to start right now.

Sarah: Definitely.  

Lynne: So, Sarah, we end the podcast with our fast three questions, so are you ready? 

Sarah: I am ready. Shoot ’em, baby.

 Rachel: Okay. First question, favourite tools of the trade you can’t live without. 

Sarah: Any type of AI platform, Claude or ChatGPT. 

Lynne: Do you have a preference? 

Sarah: I am actually loving Claude far more than ChatGPT at the moment. I’ve actually switched everything to Claude. 

Lynne: That’s what I’m hearing. A lot of people are saying that. 

Rachel: Interesting. Interesting. 

Lynne: It is interesting. So, what about one, one habit that generally saves you time, besides Claude? 

Sarah: Besides Claude, yes. I would say one habit that generally saves me time are automations.

I know a lot of people use Zapier. A lot of CRM tools have automations built in. In my opinion, anything that you’re doing more than three times on a consistent basis is a pattern, and that is something that you can automate in your life. Whether it’s getting the draft email ready for you and then you can tweak it, whatever it is, that is a massive time-saver, to automate, automate, automate.

Rachel: We just talked about this on the podcast, and I agree with you. I still have times when I’m like, “I’ve written this email three times this week or five times.” You just need canned responses and automations. They make your life easier.  

Okay, final question, one thing you wish you’d done sooner in your career.

Sarah: I wish I would’ve started public speaking and educating people more sooner than I did, about two years ago. I’ve realised that this fills me up, and there’s nothing wrong with mortgage financing, and I’ve made it beautiful in regards to how I educate people in a different way. But public speaking and getting on stages for me, I leave and I’m like a whole new woman that’s ready to take on the world.

And so, I wish I would’ve jumped on this journey a little sooner than I did.

Lynne: Oh, interesting.  

Rachel: That is amazing.

Lynne: Oh, wow, Sarah, thank you so much for your time joining us, I don’t think we mentioned, you’re in Denver, Colorado. 

Sarah: I am in Denver, Colorado. 

Lynne: So, with snow outside, which is exciting.

And so, here’s hoping our listeners run with the strategies, and also rethink about adding that human touch to all this outreach, rather than just impersonal cold emails. I think that’s really important. 

Rachel: It’s just been such an eye-opening conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. 

Lynne: Sarah, where can we find you?

Sarah: Yes. So, I am on LinkedIn at Sarah Hubbard. Also, my website is sarah-hubbard.com. And my book, The Intentional Networker, is on Amazon. And if you want to learn more about The Intentional Network, the group that I run once a month, it’s on my website as well. 

Lynne: Fantastic. 

Rachel: Amazing. 

Lynne: We’ll put all those links in the show notes.

Rachel: We will. 

Sarah: That’d be great. 

Lynne: Thank you, Sarah. 

Rachel: Thanks, Sarah.

Sarah: Bye. Thanks, ladies. 

Lynne: Bye. 

Rachel: Bye. 

Credits:

Connect with Sarah via her website: https://sarah-hubbard.com

The Intentional Networker: How to Strategically Build Your Sphere of Influence and Transform Connections Into High-Value Opportunities https://a.co/d/0426cgMQ

AI Prompts for Strategic Networking: https://sarahhubbard.myflodesk.com/aipromptsitn

Find Lynne www.lynnetestoni.com

Find Rachel www.rachelsmith.com.au

Rachel’s List www.rachelslist.com.au

Thanks (as always) to our sponsors Rounded (www.rounded.com.au), an easy invoicing and accounting solution that helps freelancers run their businesses with confidence. Looking to take advantage of the discount for Rachel’s List Gold Members? Email us at: hello@rachelslist.com.au for the details.

Episode edited by Marker Creative Co www.markercreative.co